Crush and strain using plastic foundations

[johnwm73]

I was wondering about how you use plastic foundations with the crush and strain method. Or do you have to use wax foundations or let the bees build their own? Right now I have plastic foundations. If I can use them what is the best method for getting the wax and honey off the plastic foundations? Also do I need to clean up the foundations of any left over wax before I put them back on the hive?

[tillie]

The crush part of "crush and strain" is the crushing of the wax comb.  I do think people use plastic for that occasionally, but to do so you have to scrape the wax and honey off of the plastic base.  I always use only wax - either thin surplus or no foundation (the bees then build wax combs inside the frames). 

Linda T in Atlanta (huge crush and strain fan)

[Jerrymac]

I just used a spatula to scrape off the comb. These are plastic frames I got from someone else and I don't intend to use them again. They are medium and will be put up for sale when I get them and the boxes cleaned up.

[Michael Bush]

>I was wondering about how you use plastic foundations with the crush and strain method.

I've never done it on plastic foundation, but some people scrape it off with a spatula.  I've only done wax foundation or no foundation.

[alfred]

I did it with a spatula last year. Worked great. Just scraped it into a 5 gallon frosting bucket I got from king soopers. I drilled holes in the bottom of the bucket and stacked it on top of another bucket for it to drain into. Left it overnight and the next day punched it down to get the last out. Then I pored it through a very fine screen. The wax I plan to melt down with a solar melter in the spring.

I took all of the honey, supers, stores, wax and all except brood and pollen. Greedy me!!  I put the scraped plastic foundation back into the brood section of hive and put on a hivetop feeder and the girls had rebuilt the comb within two weeks or so and had rebuilt up the stores soon after.

This year I plan to buy or make an extractor so I can save the bees the trouble of remaking all of the comb.

Alfred

[tycrnp]

I always did crush and strain for my top bar, but getting a Langstroth, so watching this thread.

[Acebird]

Warm the frame so everything falls off.

[Captain776]

From all I have read and listening to what people with 25-50 yrs experience are doing you will be better off to phase out plastic foundation, it us typically the slowest for the bees go take to.
Right now I have about 10 frames waxed and wired and when they are placed in a hive, I sill only be using natural wax starter strips.......which seems to be the fastest and best way to get drawn comb.
Bees know how to build comb, it is what they do and they will do it faster when left to their natural instincts nstead of trying to figure out what to do with wax or plastic foundation.

Thanks

Bruce

[cao]

I've taken a big spoon and scraped the comb off.  Then let the frame drain overnight.  I did this with wax foundation.  You don't get all the honey but you can put it back in the hive and let the bees have it.  I don't see much difference with plastic foundation.

[Oldbeavo]

Captain
What bees do with foundation and the speed the do it is totally related to the honey flow.
The bigger the flow the quicker and they will draw out plastic just as quick a wax. Last month we had a hive given 8 new plastic foundation frames, big flow on, 16 days later 8 frames of capped honey, hives with stickies were 12 days to fill.
We are moving to 100% plastic foundation, lower cost and less labour to assemble finished frame. And don't fall apart in the extractor on their first spin.

[Captain776]

Captain
What bees do with foundation and the speed the do it is totally related to the honey flow.
The bigger the flow the quicker and they will draw out plastic just as quick a wax. Last month we had a hive given 8 new plastic foundation frames, big flow on, 16 days later 8 frames of capped honey, hives with stickies were 12 days to fill.
We are moving to 100% plastic foundation, lower cost and less labour to assemble finished frame. And don't fall apart in the extractor on their first spin.

That's great it is working for you. You are one of the first people I have read of that spoke well of plastic.
Wish you the best

Bruce

[Oldbeavo]

Captain
We are migratory bee keepers, these bees are on their 6th site for the year. in moving bees to honey flows we probably maximise the chance of plastic working well.
Our plastic foundation has a coating of wax put on it with short nap paint roller, about 30-40 gms per sheet.

[cao]

I started using some plastic foundation last year.  The key to get them using it is to brush or roll extra wax on them.  I've noticed that they will partially draw out the frame with the added wax brushed on it even if they don't need it yet.  I think that they consider the extra wax on the plastic foundation as damaged and they simply go into repair mode.  Once repaired, they will continue drawing it out if they need it or let it sit until they do.

[sc-bee]

I hate plastic even though I have never used it I just see what others folks hives look like that use it. But we are not a state with a tremendous flow. Despite all that I bought some to try this year ans started with rite-cell that I did not add extra wax too. The bees have not touched it. However, I think the turn is to more plastic foundation because the price of wax has gone over the price of plastic or equal and less time to install plastic. Also have you noticed where mediums are beginning to take the place of shallows in the market?

On a side note I hear rave comments about Acorn foundation. It is more expensive but folks claim not much difference after you add the wax cost, not counting time, you add to other plastics.

[cao]

Despite all that I bought some to try this year ans started with rite-cell that I did not add extra wax too. The bees have not touched it.

It is like the difference between night and day when you add extra wax to the frames.  I just use a paint brush and slap some melted wax on the foundation.  After in the hive for about a week you can tell what part of the foundation has more wax then the rest.  The more wax areas will be drawn out farther.  I've found that they will do that with or without a flow. 

[Bush_84]

I never knew that.  I mean I always heard that apply wax to the foundation would help but I didn't know it was almost stimulating. I may have to give that a try. I do use a combination of plastic and foundationless. Mostly foundationless, but I am tiring of all the drone comb. I see all these YouTube videos of worker comb edge to edge. Then I see my comb with a big swath of drone comb in the center of the frame. Before I go and invest in a bunch of foundation I, am going big into Nucs this year. I understand that Nucs will draw out worker brood like it's going out of style.

[Captain776]

I never knew that.  I mean I always heard that apply wax to the foundation would help but I didn't know it was almost stimulating. I may have to give that a try. I do use a combination of plastic and foundationless. Mostly foundationless, but I am tiring of all the drone comb. I see all these YouTube videos of worker comb edge to edge. Then I see my comb with a big swath of drone comb in the center of the frame. Before I go and invest in a bunch of foundation I, am going big into Nucs this year. I understand that Nucs will draw out worker brood like it's going out of style.

Once they start to draw comb, regardless if it is plastic, wax, foundationless, starter strip.........don't they work at the same speed once they get started?

Bruce

[sc-bee]

I've taken a big spoon and scraped the comb off.  Then let the frame drain overnight.  I did this with wax foundation.  You don't get all the honey but you can put it back in the hive and let the bees have it.  I don't see much difference with plastic foundation.

Yea, I knew that but wanted to see what they would do with it with no wax added. Some folks here claim they will draw it. At this point I don't have enough experience with it to comment.

[cao]

Once they start to draw comb, regardless if it is plastic, wax, foundationless, starter strip.........don't they work at the same speed once they get started?

They will draw new comb as fast as they need it.  During a flow they can draw out a full box of comb in a week.  And fill it with capped honey in another week.  If they don't need it they won't draw it out.  When adding extra wax to plastic foundation they consider it damage comb and repair it regardless of flow(it takes no extra resources for them to 'repair' it).  If there is no flow they will stop drawing it out when they run out of the added wax.  But once the plastic foundation has been 'repaired' or drawn out, there is no hesitation for them to use it when needed.

Yea, I knew that but wanted to see what they would do with it with no wax added. Some folks here claim they will draw it. At this point I don't have enough experience with it to comment.

Last spring was the first time for me using plastic foundation.  I was having trouble getting them to draw it out until I added extra wax.  I would advise anyone to spend the time to add extra wax to the plastic.