Burr Comb In Nucleus Hive

BrianP_69 · November 14, 2018, 06:24:16 AM

Hi guys.
I've managed to collect three swarms in the last few weeks but being short of drawn comb, one swarm had to be placed in a 4 frame Nuc hive with just foundation. After waiting 7 days, an inspection revealed burr comb in the lid with some eggs but no drawn comb on the frames. I may have made a mistake by getting rid of the comb in the lid but I raided my super from another hive which had drawn comb on both sides with a lot of stored nectar uncapped on the other, hopefully encouraging then girls to continue on the frames & not the lid. I am inspecting again this weekend & if they continued drawing comb in the lid, again with eggs, I'll probably have no choice but to leave it there.
Any advice would be appreciated.

blackforest beekeeper · November 14, 2018, 08:49:11 AM

foundation should be plenty.
how come they get the opportunity to build comb on the lid?
too much distance to the top bars?
box not full of frames?

BrianP_69 · November 15, 2018, 01:14:02 AM

Quote from: blackforest beekeeper on November 14, 2018, 08:49:11 AM
foundation should be plenty.
how come they get the opportunity to build comb on the lid?
too much distance to the top bars?
box not full of frames?

I've spoken to several beekeepers that don't use any inner covers or hive mats.
My hives & the borrowed Nuc hives have a migratory lid so there is a gap between the top of the frames & the inside of the lid.
A pretty simple task to remove burr comb if any but a little more problematic in the Nuc hive.

blackforest beekeeper · November 15, 2018, 02:36:38 AM

?so they will build burr comb again.

BrianP_69 · November 15, 2018, 02:53:20 AM

Quote from: blackforest beekeeper on November 15, 2018, 02:36:38 AM
?so they will build burr comb again.

Hopefully not now that I have given them a frame of fully drawn comb with nectar on one side.
I'm trying to encourage good behaviour. The Nuc's are borrowed so I'm not going to be making any inner covers for them.
Fingers crossed the Queen has now started laying in the cells on the drawn out frame & abandoned the lid.
For some reason they chose to build in the lid rather than on the new foundation I gave them, wax & all?
I'll do an inspection on Sunday.

blackforest beekeeper · November 15, 2018, 03:33:06 AM

that?s bees, is all.

Just lay a foil of plastic on the top bars.

BrianP_69 · November 15, 2018, 04:05:05 AM

Quote from: blackforest beekeeper on November 15, 2018, 03:33:06 AM
that?s bees, is all.

Just lay a foil of plastic on the top bars.

I'll do something like that.
Cheers

BeeMaster2 · November 15, 2018, 06:55:20 AM

Brian,
It sounds like you have done several inspections on this new hive including having to remove burr comb. Every time you inspect, the bees have to stop and fix everything that you messed up, in their mind. At this point try just opening the lid and see how they are doing to see if you need to go any further.
I use screen top boards with insulation boards above the screen so that I can see what is going on without disturbing the bees.
Jim

max2 · November 15, 2018, 06:42:33 PM

"For some reason they chose to build in the lid rather than on the new foundation I gave them, wax & all?"

I find that the bees will build in the lid even with space on foundations.
My theory is that it takes less wax/energy to build drone comb ( most is drone comb) in the lid than to reduce moisture to 18% and cap the honey on the frames.

BrianP_69 · November 16, 2018, 02:30:10 AM

Quote from: sawdstmakr on November 15, 2018, 06:55:20 AM
Brian,
It sounds like you have done several inspections on this new hive including having to remove burr comb. Every time you inspect, the bees have to stop and fix everything that you messed up, in their mind. At this point try just opening the lid and see how they are doing to see if you need to go any further.
I use screen top boards with insulation boards above the screen so that I can see what is going on without disturbing the bees.
Jim

I only inspect once per week just to see if the Queen is laying. Once I find eggs, larvae etc, I don't go any further with inspecting as I know she's laying.
Nuc 1 is powering along with the 3 ideal frames covered in bees, frame 4 ( full depth ) is being drawn out, plenty off eggs, larvae & capped brood.
Nuc 2 was the burr comb builders. It's doing quite well too. A tiny bit of comb in the lid, no eggs in the comb so removed it. They're drawing comb on the frames with plenty of eggs too.
Nuc 3 will be inspected on Monday, a full week after catching that swarm.

BrianP_69 · November 16, 2018, 02:32:44 AM

Quote from: max2 on November 15, 2018, 06:42:33 PM
"For some reason they chose to build in the lid rather than on the new foundation I gave them, wax & all?"

I find that the bees will build in the lid even with space on foundations.
My theory is that it takes less wax/energy to build drone comb ( most is drone comb) in the lid than to reduce moisture to 18% and cap the honey on the frames.

I agree.
It looks like they have come to their senses by drawing out comb on the frame this time.
Tiny piece of comb in the lid which I removed.

Barraboy · December 16, 2018, 12:01:19 AM

1. I always give swarms a frame of brood with eggs to work on when I bring them home. And put it in the middle they will be all over it and build comb beside it
2. Very strange they won?t work on foundation, is it proper beeswax, or plastic or weird wax
3. I never use migratory kids, what for? A sheet of vinyl on top of frames creates a beetle hotel as well. Use a telescopic lid, no space up top. I never get why people create space for burr comb, bees hate empty space up top.

Barraboy · December 16, 2018, 12:04:53 AM

In areas where small hive beetle exist, a roll of plastic or vinyl on top just created more space for beetles to hide.

blackforest beekeeper · December 16, 2018, 05:11:27 AM

Quote from: Barraboy on December 16, 2018, 12:04:53 AM
In areas where small hive beetle exist, a roll of plastic or vinyl on top just created more space for beetles to hide.

didn`t know that. we don`t have them. I got 9 mm above the frames. very little burr comb. no plastic.

Beelab · December 16, 2018, 09:21:49 AM

I don?t understand why you give a swarm frames with foundation, when a swarm is a comb building machine.

Barraboy · December 16, 2018, 04:27:25 PM

Yes they are great builders, but you need foundation to make them build in orderly way. A strong swarm can draw out a whole box in 10 days. Seen it over and over😄

BeeMaster2 · December 16, 2018, 10:38:14 PM

I only put one old frame of drawn comb in my swarm traps. The rest are foundation less with a waxed strip of wood across the top. They build really nice frames really quick.
Jim

max2 · December 17, 2018, 02:08:49 AM

Old frames in trap hives is not legal anymore in Australia

blackforest beekeeper · December 17, 2018, 03:00:24 AM

Quote from: max2 on December 17, 2018, 02:08:49 AM
Old frames in trap hives is not legal anymore in Australia

hasn`t been in Germany for decades.

they will build nice natural comb, sawdust, I agree and do it the same, even with artifical nucs.

BeeMaster2 · December 17, 2018, 07:48:23 AM

Using old frames is legal here in Florida and most states. Due to our inspectors, we have AFB down to one percent.
Try just using the waxed wooden strips. I find that freshly melted wax not only draws them in to using your trap but they also like to follow it, especially when they are building comb quickly.
Jim