Queen excluder

Charles Wright · July 21, 2020, 08:29:24 PM

Okay I'm brand new to beekeeping I haven't even bought my first two nucs yet I'm still in the learning phase. One thing I'm a little bit confused about and I can't find any videos talking about this. If I don't use a queen excluder and the queen goes up into the supers laying brood how do you harvest the honey? Am I supposed to just go around and pull what she doesn't lay brood in?

Robo · July 21, 2020, 08:51:45 PM

As brood hatched in the honey super they will backfill it with honey and drive the brood nest down. you can just wait to harvest until they have backfilled the super with honey. Occasionally you will still find some drone brood along the bottom since it takes longer to hatch. It is not a problem.

TheHoneyPump · July 22, 2020, 10:50:53 AM

Depending on your climate and floral sources there is risk of leaving the honey until brood is gone and backfilled. One risk is granulation of the honey in the frames. At that point it cannot be extracted. Another risk is if your area has heavy flows, the boxes will fill with honey much much faster than the brood develops. You will have to keep stacking more on and the queen will go on stove piping right up the middle.
The queen excluder is an essential tool in the beekeepers tool box. Just like the hammer in the carpenters box or the pipe wrench in the plumbers box. Use the queen excluder to manage where you want the queen to go and where you do not want her to go. The QE use is not limited to just keeping her out of the honey supers.

Hope that helps!

iddee · July 22, 2020, 11:32:46 AM

Rather than the hammer, I would compare the excluder to the power saw. In the inexperienced hands, it can be deadly. I would recommend not using it until you have 2 or 3 years experience and knows when and how to use it. I have seen too many new beeks kill hives with an excluder.

""The queen excluder is an essential tool in the beekeepers tool box.""

I totally disagree with that statement. I have successfully kept bees for over 40 years without using an excluder. It is not only nonessential, but can be quite damaging.

AR Beekeeper · July 22, 2020, 12:06:03 PM

I suppose it is all in how I started out keeping bees, but I find the excluder to be an important tool in colony management. I find confining the queen to a single deep when the surplus honey supers are added, and then keeping her there until October when feeding for winter begins, to simplify management. How do you kill a colony with an excluder when it is placed between the food chamber above and the brood chamber?

The15thMember · July 22, 2020, 01:32:17 PM

I am not experienced enough to discuss or give my opinions on the efficiency and quality of management using a queen excluder vs. not, but I don't use one and here's how it works for me. Bees generally arrange their hives with brood at the bottom and honey on the top. In my experience, queens generally won't cross a honey barrier to lay, so if you have a honey super above the brood nest, it will keep the queen below it.

van from Arkansas · July 22, 2020, 02:00:51 PM

Quote from: AR Beekeeper on July 22, 2020, 12:06:03 PM
I suppose it is all in how I started out keeping bees, but I find the excluder to be an important tool in colony management. I find confining the queen to a single deep when the surplus honey supers are added, and then keeping her there until October when feeding for winter begins, to simplify management. How do you kill a colony with an excluder when it is placed between the food chamber above and the brood chamber?

Hi AR, I can?t speak for ID but I believe the fella is thinking winter. A QE can be deadly in winter as you know or a QE trapping the queen away from the brood nest by error can cause issues. I have have seen beeks make this error, trapping the queen in the honey box, excluded from the brood below.

Some very knowledgeable fellas here on this topic. Me, just me, I use QE for queen rearing and that is about all I use a QE for. I am not concerned with honey as I only need enough honey for the wife and I. Remember, I am just a hobbyist and raising bees for enjoyment, so yes Sir, yes Lady, I do things a lil different.

AR Beekeeper · July 22, 2020, 02:33:29 PM

Yes Van, I agree that not removing the queen excluder is not one of the best management practices for overwintering. That is not the excluders fault and it should not receive the blame, the fault rests with the beekeeper.

In answer to Mr. Wright's question, if no excluder is used the beekeeper must remove and harvest only the comb with no brood in it. If you attempt to produce comb honey an excluder must be used.

Do a search on YouTube for the UoG Beekeeping, they have a selection of videos that you may find helpful. Also, I would suggest you search for used books on beekeeping, in particular the ABCs & XYZ of Beekeeping published before 1980. This book will give good information on colony manipulations and practical management. For information on parasites it is outdated.

jimineycricket · July 22, 2020, 04:53:43 PM

QuoteI would suggest you search for used books on beekeeping, in particular the ABCs & XYZ of Beekeeping published before 1980. This book will give good information on colony manipulations and practical management.

It can be found here: https://archive.org/search.php?query=title%3A%28ABC%20and%20XYZ%20of%20bee%20culture%29%20AND%20creator%3A%28A%20I%20Root%29%20AND%20mediatype%3A%28texts%29

iddee · July 22, 2020, 06:14:56 PM

Like Van said, forget to remove it in Oct. or anytime there is a dearth and the bees move up and leave an empty lower box other than the dead queen.

I said before, a queen excluder is fine for an experienced beek. It's the first 2 or 3 years I recommend leaving them off. As15th said, the honey will be stored above the brood chamber in a well managed hive. Until it is deep enough to make a honey cap below the super, the hive doesn't have enough stores to give up a super of honey. If it is a full super of honey plus a honey cap below, there will be no worker brood in the super.

Oldbeavo · July 22, 2020, 06:26:38 PM

I think the QX issue is divided between commercial beekeepers and hobbyist.
I am in HP's camp, an essential tool for us. It allows us to run a single brood box and when shifting bees only having to deal with a single super. This is both room and weight on the trailer.
Finding a queen without a QX is time consuming, if we have 20-30 queens to replace in a day then finding the cull queens is the limiting factor.
As a Hobbyist then I would think they are optional and if I was to give the queen more running room then I would probably put the QX on 2 brood boxes with a super above. The hive would have enough stores in 2 boxes to over winter and survive low flows.

Remember, 10 beekeepers will have 20 opinions on any subject.

iddee · July 22, 2020, 07:04:58 PM

And how many commercial keeps are in their first or second year of beekeeping?

Ben Framed · July 22, 2020, 11:43:55 PM

Quote from: Oldbeavo on July 22, 2020, 06:26:38 PM
I think the QX issue is divided between commercial beekeepers and hobbyist.
I am in HP's camp, an essential tool for us. It allows us to run a single brood box and when shifting bees only having to deal with a single super. This is both room and weight on the trailer.
Finding a queen without a QX is time consuming, if we have 20-30 queens to replace in a day then finding the cull queens is the limiting factor.
As a Hobbyist then I would think they are optional and if I was to give the queen more running room then I would probably put the QX on 2 brood boxes with a super above. The hive would have enough stores in 2 boxes to over winter and survive low flows.

Remember, 10 beekeepers will have 20 opinions on any subject.

Oldbeavo, being you are a commercial keeper as is HP, you have made valid and clear explanations as why you in the commercial beekeepers camp us the QE. I appreciate your outlook for your circumstances and reasons explained.
Your advice for hobbyist which choose to use QE makes sense also. And you are right, about the 10 keepers and 20 opinions. lol.

Now for my question. I bought and used QEs this season, bought mostly metal but ordered 5 plastic just for the experience of trying them for myself, and was very pleased with the results of the metal ones. Two of my hives with the plastic excluders, someway wound up with the queens above the brood chamber. I took EXTRA CARE to make sure the queen were below when I inserted the QEs. Ever have that happen?

TheHoneyPump · July 22, 2020, 11:53:54 PM

The plastic ones warp with temperature. They also deform when placed on uneven bridge comb and squashed between frames/boxes. Some may crack. Both situations change the geometry of the slots where a particularly slender or squashy queen could conceivably wiggle through.

Charles Wright · July 23, 2020, 12:05:40 AM

Well...Now that we've settled that issue. Lol. I think the lesson I learned here is that I had it backwards. I thought using a QX was what a newb did and when I got more experience, I could go without it. I'm gonna go with Iddee's advice and get some experience before I use the excluder. Thanks guys. I'm gonna read more on the issue. I've got a book I'm reading but I'll put those mentioned on the list. Thanks again folks.

Ben Framed · July 23, 2020, 12:25:52 AM

Quote from: TheHoneyPump on July 22, 2020, 11:53:54 PM
The plastic ones warp with temperature. They also deform when placed on uneven bridge comb and squashed between frames/boxes. Some may crack. Both situations change the geometry of the slots where a particularly slender or squashy queen could conceivably wiggle through.

Thank you Mr HP. A friend from Canada advised me to invest in the metal ones. This I did except for those 5 for my own curiosity. I can again say, my friend from the North has never steered me wrong! Now that my curiosity is quenched it is metal QE all the way for me. lol Thanks Mr HP. for your input.