Plastic Frames reuse

[Ben Framed]

What about some type of steam set up?  Would this possibly work or will the steam also warp the frames?

Wax melts at 62-67 degC. Steam is 105+ degC. The plastic frame material begins to deform, warp, at just under 60 degC. Any form of heat is not going to work.
In absence of anything already done or available in the scale of what we need ..... I have something figured out. Just getting the economics sorted.  Then will get on with the build.

Thanks all

OK, my curiosity is up. Looking forward to the (cure).

Mr. HoneyPump,
Did you find a solution for this subject?

Phillip

[TheHoneyPump]

Sorry, I have not been following this one.  I have nothing more to add that has not already been covered.

[Lesgold]

I have accidentally put frames with plastic foundation into my steam box. The end result is not pretty. I use a paint scraper and a wire brush to clean foundation in the early spring. I get the bees do most of the work. I have tried many methods over the years including soaking and pressure blasting. What I do now gives me good results with minimal work. For this method to work well, the bees must be building up and be in comb building mode. Cramped conditions and a honey flow are essential. Swarms do a good job. You can place the  scraped frames onto a strong hive during a dearth. The bees will clean up most of the old cocoons but will not draw wax. These frames can then be removed from the hive and re waxed ready for the next honey flow.
https://youtu.be/P4fWEIIKWFQ

Cheers

Les

[Ben Framed]

Just to add perspective and scale to the inquiry.  I am looking at some stacks in the order of 18,000 - 25,000 frames to renew.

I have something figured out. Just getting the economics sorted.  Then will get on with the build.

Thanks all

Sorry, I have not been following this one.  I have nothing more to add that has not already been covered.

A quick word..
This is a good topic started by you HoneyPump, very good. From your OP post of this topic started by yourself, sharing your needs, relaying scraping 18,000-25,000 frames was too labor intensive, and or, time consuming.

This topic was sort of a cliff hanger....  Therefore I attempted to arouse your interest, 'while' jogging your memory even though you started this topic over 3 years ago.

My question should have simply been:
Was you successful in getting on with the build from your thoughts, of what you had figured out as far as renewing or restoring  this 'vast amount' of frames successfully and efficiently?

If you was not successful, my thoughts were, and are, perhaps this worthy topic might deserve more discussion for the benefit of all who use plastic foundation. Since the posting of this topic we have several additional new members, who have shown thinking out of the box mindsets which might enjoy contributing to this topic, whose input might help solve your needs along with 'others needs', who use plastic foundation. With these thoughts in mind, I renewed this topic starting at Reply #40

Phillip

[Ben Framed]

Food for though:

We have beekeeping equipment available for most every need. From two frame Hand crank honey extractors for small hobby beekeepers, too large scale production line systems, complete with uncapping tools incorporated in these extraction lines built for commercial scale use. Automatic line fed production equipment as shown and used by such large scale commercial beekeepers, as exemplified to us via youtube from folks like Ian Steppler and Bob Binnie for example.

I do not see any reason that a large scale automatic, plastic frame/foundation combination cleaning set up could not be easily invented and built. Something similar to an automatic car wash line production set up, on a scale for the sole purpose of cleaning one piece frame/foundations incorporated with a complete wax recovery tank set up in conjunction. Such a system would make handy work for a vast amount of one piece frame/foundation described by The HoneyPump, quantities which may add up to several thousand as in his case of need.

Something on this thought plane would be a valuable asset indeed.

Phillip

[NigelP]

To play "Devils advocate" what are the reasons for choosing/using plastic frames over conventional beeswax?

[Lesgold]

Hi NigelP

Merry Christmas. In the early years of my beekeeping there was a lot of talk about the plastic foundation so over a few years, I tried some. I reckon I?d have about 300 frames of the stuff in my hives. I use wooden frames with plastic foundation inserts. I find there are heaps of advantages and only a couple of problem areas in using it. Here in Australia, plastic foundation sheets are only two thirds the price of regular foundation. The price of wax has gone though the roof over the past few years due to the high international demand for our clean beeswax. As a result, foundation prices have followed suit. Wiring frames is one of those jobs that is slow. Clipping in a sheet of plastic occurs very quickly. The plastic is great in the extractor. You can spin frames at a much higher speed without getting any cell collapse. I now find that recycling a frame containing plastic is much quicker than cleaning up a normal frame. I only have two concerns with plastic foundation. The first issue is that bees don?t like it. When I first started using it, there were times that they would not draw it at all or would only make crazy comb.  These days, if I clean up some of the foundation, I normally just store it until I know conditions are right for the bees to do their work. When given to a hive at the right time, the bees will draw out comb just a quickly as regular foundation. My main concern with the stuff is that it is plastic. Even though it works well, I will eventually get rid of it (over time it does get brittle and I break the odd sheet) and replace it with regular foundation. If you are running a large operation with a lot of hives, plastic foundation would save a huge amount of both time and money. If you are a hobby beekeeper like myself, it really comes down to a personal preference. For anyone just starting out in the hobby, I would generally suggest wax foundation.

Cheers

Les

[BeeMaster2]

I have thousands of plastic frames, some new, some old, most have been renewed several times.
They are great in honey supers but I prefer foundation less in the brood area. I prefer to use a pressure washer to clean them up after nature has cleaned up most of the old wax. I them use a deep dip tank to add wax. When dipping I insert the frames in half way and then bang them on the inside of the tank on the way out to remove the excess wax. Then dip the other side.
Jim Altmiller

[NigelP]

But for cut comb?


They seem to be a lot of work to save little money. In the UK there are various wax exchange schemes that make buying thin (cut comb) foundation almost a no brainer. I run all my suoers on this thin unwired comb, it centrifuges well for normal extraction and I never have to work out which frames I can use for cut comb.

[Lesgold]

A really hot knife will cut through it but gee it does take some solid chewing before you can swallow it. 🤪🤪🤪

[NigelP]

A really hot knife will cut through it but gee it does take some solid chewing before you can swallow it. 🤪🤪🤪

LOL.....nearly choked on my Turkey.

[Oldbeavo]

All of post #46
Wax $2 per sheet, plastic $1.10, pure economics, cost and time.
Also there is no gap at the bottom of the frame for the queen to duck through when trying to find her.
Some of our plastic foundation has been in for 10+ years and not touched. Some full plastics have been there 15 years.
If there is too much drone comb then it is replaced, about 20+ per year, the old ones are put in the trash.
Why clean foundation?

[NigelP]

Can see the economics with that price difference.
UK plastic brood frames are $1.07/sheet vs $1.04 sheet for wired brood. With the wax exchange schemes the wired wax works out at around $0.33/sheet. 
The thin sheets I use in the supers are about $0.13.

[Oldbeavo]

Nigel
Australian wax is making $20/kg wholesale at present.
Better to sell the wax and buy plastic foundation.