Using Small Cell Foundation in a Brand new Hive

[steveciii]

Hello,

I have a small newbee question about using small cell foundation..... In a brand new hive....
Background.....
I have a line on a 5 frame nuc.... I think it will come with std Foundation full of bees and brood...I want to transfer the 5 frames into a 10 frame deep.

What would be the steps to go with on transfering the small cell into and getting the big cell out of the main box.... I take it I wil put back in 4 frames of small to start with for 9 frames total in main box....?????

Thank you.....
Steve

[Brian D. Bray]

I would start the nuc by switching into the full 19 frame with standard brood foundation.  Once a 2nd box was needed I would put the box full of small cell foundation below the other box.  Then follow that up with a second brood box of small cell foundation and move the standard sized cell up to the super area and harvest it.  This might take more than this year to accomplish depending on how the honey flows go.

[steveciii]

Brian....

Thanks for the quick reply......
Do you/are would you not put small cell into the bottom with the already 5 frames of reg size.... I am making out my order for foundation and was going to order just small.....

Or

order reg size and small cell....?????? .....
Or do you put reg size cell foundation into the suppers...... or does this confuse the bees on what size to build when they go from brood(small) to honey comb foundation(reg).....

Thank you for answering such a newbee question....
Steve

[Brian D. Bray]

I would not intentionally mix the frames in the same box.  Small cell is more expensive and as such it's use would be limited to brood chambers instead of supers for harvest from a monetary standpoint.

Maybe MB will chime in as he is the most experienced with small cell.

[photokid]

I tried small cell in a few hives here in hot Miami, FL. The bees did not like it at all. They turned those frames into multi-sized cells and in the end hives with small cell went to crap. In the span of six months I've already replaced most of my small cell frames out of necessity because if the tragedies that occurred.

Test it, see if your bees like it before using it on all your hives. Also, I don't think small cell is sold in super sizes because the wax to honey ratio is not efficient. Don't worry, your bees will let you know.

[amymcg]

bees have to be regressed to small cell. It doesn't happen instantly when using foundation.  They will build multiple cell sizes on the first round.  

Trying it won't work. You have to do it, and make your bees do it, and it takes time.

[Understudy]

Here in West Palm Beach 60 miles north of Miami. I am running small cell permacomb. The bees are still going through a regression and probably will for the next year but it works very well for me. I just have to remember that not all the domed cells are drones.

Sincerely,
Brendhan

[photokid]

Very good info. I will try again, since trying and doing are the same to me. :)

[Michael Bush]

>What would be the steps to go with on transfering the small cell into and getting the big cell out of the main box.... I take it I wil put back in 4 frames of small to start with for 9 frames total in main box....?????

I'd shave a little off the end bars and put 11 frames in the box.  You'll get better small cell, you'll get more brood AND according to some studies less nosema.  I would never put nine frames in a ten frame brood box unless there are some extra thick combs and I just can't crowd them together.

I run all eight frame mediums and my brood boxes are all 9 frames.  This requires cutting the end bars down to 1 1/4".

As far as removing the large cell, it's always easy to steal honey (it's what we beekeepers do isn't it?) so taking a frame at a time of any that is all honey out isn't too hard.  For now put the honey frames on the outside and the brood in the middle flanked by some small cell foundation.  As they get some stores built up you can steal those honey frames.  When the hive gets where some of the small cell has been filled with brood you can move the large cell more to the outside edge of the brood nest.  Sooner or later the brood nest will contract and they will be full of honey or empty.  Also, once they've expanded into another box, you can put the large cell on the other side of an excluder and wait for the brood to emerge and then steal the combs.