Varroa Mites in Northern Kentucky/Southern Ohio and Indiana

Joe · June 12, 2006, 04:51:59 PM

I have had several hives in the northern part of Kentucky for 3 years now and have never seen a single Varroa mite or any other disease for that matter. I was just curious if anyone in this part of the country has been having problems with Varroa or any other parasites and diseases.

Understudy · June 12, 2006, 09:35:55 PM

I can mail you some of my small hive beetles if you are feeling left out.

Sincerely,
Brendhan

Brian D. Bray · June 12, 2006, 11:05:03 PM

Count your blessing while they last and prepare for their eventual appearance. Forewarned is forearmed.

Finsky · June 13, 2006, 01:08:41 AM

Quote from: JoeI was just curious if anyone in this part of the country has been having problems with Varroa or any other parasites and diseases.

Very very strange if there is this kind of spot on globe? May be Antarctis is this kind of place :P

Michael Bush · June 13, 2006, 08:49:34 AM

The only isolated pocket I have heard of in NA is in British Columbia up in the mountains. If you have bees. You have mites.

Joe · June 13, 2006, 10:51:10 AM

The area my hives are located in is not mountainous but quite hilly. It's a very rural area with mostly cattle, sheep, and tobacco farms. I'm not too sure how many beekeepers there are in the area, I have never heard of any local to me and with such a small town pretty much everyone knows everybody and everything. I have done several dust rolls lately and frequently inspect drone cells for mites but have never seen any. Once I did find a single catepillar on the bottom board in a corner which could have been a wax moth larvae but I'm not too sure having never seen those before either, I haven't seen any more of those since.

I'm curious as to whether my hives are well secluded from others and this is the reason for my absence of any disease and parasites.

Brendhan,
Thanks for the offer on the SHB.. I think the shipping costs would kill me so I'm going to have to decline your very generous offer. :D

Michael Bush · June 14, 2006, 12:04:10 AM

I assure you, your bees have varroa mites. You just haven't seen them. Open some drone brood now and again and keep studying the bottom board.

Joe · June 14, 2006, 10:02:57 AM

Michael,
I admit that you have more beekeeping experience and that there is a high likelyhood that I do have Varroa mites, but I have never seen one and I check brood comb about every two weeks. I have never treated for Varroa or any other pest and am not using small cell foundation. When I started out the Russians were popular and being promoted for their hygenic behavior; I ordered a 3# package and other then a few new queens every year or so all of my bees have been derived from that original colony. I have currently several Italian queens, some Carniolans, a Feral queen and one Russian, so I am sure that not all of my colonies are as hygenic as the other.
The above is the reason why I started this thread initially, I'm curious as to why I haven't noticed Varroa as I hear that it is a very common pest. I have always wondered if I was missing something and other then checking my BB's and drone comb and the occasional sugar roll, what other methods of detection are there?
If I had Varroa and have not yet treated for Varroa shouldn't I have a large population of Varroa mites?

Finsky · June 14, 2006, 11:18:47 AM

There are many places where varroa have not yet arrived. It is good because it causes many harms. But about varroa we talk too much. It is not so bad when you learn to handle it. Chalkbrood is much worse to me than varroa.

I remember that 30% of Norwegian hives have not varroa. In Finland there are some periferial places. It took 10 years when varroa went across Finland from Russian border to west cost.

I may say that it is not miracle if someone has not varroa. It is more good luck.

Michael Bush · June 17, 2006, 10:09:15 PM

>There are many places where varroa have not yet arrived.

But Kentucky is not one of them.

fcderosa · June 20, 2006, 08:41:14 AM

We have Varroa mites in Northern KY, but with the screen bases they're an inconvenience and controllable. I haven't used any chemicals as the board count hasn't warranted it. Why bother using chemicals if the bees are doing fine naturally. Most beekeepers in our area have lost many hives due to the abstract weather this year. One friend lost 144 out of 300, others lost even more. As a hobbyist I consider myself lucky not to have lost any. Many here still use the standard bases and have mite problems.

Joe · June 20, 2006, 09:10:41 AM

I spoke just the other day with Phil Craft, the state apiarist for Kentucky. I asked him about the fact that I have not been able to detect any mites in my hives and he stated that over the last 2 years there has been a sharp decline in the Varroa mite population here in Kentucky and that many beekeepers are reporting low mite counts. He also said that it is most likely that I do have mites, but that the count is so low that they are virtually undetectable. So both Michael and Phil are telling me the same thing, I've got mites... I don't have any screened bottom boards but I am seriously considering switching to them and using a sticky board to make sure that I can monitor more effectively any future issues I may have with Varroa.

Brian D. Bray · June 20, 2006, 11:56:07 PM

Good move.

Finsky · June 21, 2006, 02:49:13 AM

Quote from: fcderosaWhy bother using chemicals if the bees are doing fine naturally. .

Beekeepers last famous words.

I moved my hives to summer cottage 1981. The distance is 25 km. I left to my mother one hive. I killed it 1982 because it was full of varroa. It took untill 1987 when mites arrived to summer cottage hives.

In Finland varroa spread 50 km per year.

If you have not varroa it is vain to think that it is "natural protection".

The dream that beekeepers use no chemicals is really false. Look at your house how much you use chemicals every day. And in this age I put a collection of pills every morning in my mouth. blood pressure, cholesterol, vitamins, magnesium, alcohol, allowed additives.....

.

fcderosa · June 21, 2006, 10:26:49 PM

Well Finsky, not an exact quote only partail and out of context. Yes, we live in a chemical ladden environment, why add to it. If you occasionally monitor your hives and the sticky boards show only a couple mites in a 24 hour period your hive isn't doing too bad. Why use the chemicals? The wide spread use of chemicals as a prevention rather than a cure is the reason many pests are building tolerances towards many chemicals used today. You don't take antibiotics now because you might get sick this winter. :roll:

Michael Bush · June 21, 2006, 11:23:42 PM

>The dream that beekeepers use no chemicals is really false.

Maybe you should explain that to my bees. ;)

Understudy · June 21, 2006, 11:28:44 PM

No, but you are innoculated against certain diseases so you don't get them. The innoculation doesn't mean that the germ or virus doesn't exist in nature it just means it won't affect you. While I am not a big fan of chemicals myself, I understand those who use them. Also please understand Finsky does very well at getting very good crops with his bees. So while I may not use chemicals and I may like small cell. Finisky's methods have worked very well for him over many years and he shares that information here. I think that is quite admirable.

Sincerely,
Brendhan

Hi-Tech · June 22, 2006, 12:52:20 AM

It seems like to me, and please correct me if I am wrong, there are two main groups of beekeepers... Hobbyist and commercial. The commercial beeks tend to use more chemicals because their main goal is a large honey crop and the hobbyist is not as concerned with a large money crop so chemicals are not as important. I am not saying either one is good or bad, right or wrong. They just have different motives. Am I even close here?

Zoot · June 22, 2006, 02:36:40 AM

H-T,

Here in our part of MD I can say that your observation is pretty much on the mark. I'm aquainted with individuals in both sectors as well as several state inspectors (both experienced hobbyists) and I've observed that the commercial apiaries rely on massive use of chemicals as well as a somewhat more narrowly focused management style as must necessarily be in keeping with an industry solely concerned with large scale honey production. Personally, I am also inclined to neither praise or condemn this. At the same time I doubt I'll ever consume their honey again.

Also, with regard to some of the observations on chemical use in general - always remember that when it comes to pesticides, herbicides and whatever the pharmiceutical companies are pushing at any given moment, the bottom line is THE BOTTOM LINE. Profits. Pleasing the shareholders. Altruism, the common good, doesn't figure into it, ever. And just because it's "legal" or "approved" doesn't absolve the responsible citizen from culpability or the duty to use good, intelligent judgement.

Understudy · June 22, 2006, 10:05:39 AM

Quote from: ZootH-T,

Also, with regard to some of the observations on chemical use in general - always remember that when it comes to pesticides, herbicides and whatever the pharmiceutical companies are pushing at any given moment, the bottom line is THE BOTTOM LINE. Profits. Pleasing the shareholders. Altruism, the common good, doesn't figure into it, ever. And just because it's "legal" or "approved" doesn't absolve the responsible citizen from culpability or the duty to use good, intelligent judgement.

You are correct. And there is nothing wrong with profits especially when your paycheck is derived from them. Business that don't stay profitable don't stay. Not all businesses are some big huge mega corporation. Many are small and and family owned buisness. They require profits in order to eat.

Many people, myself included, don't use chemicals. There are two reasons I don't need to with my small number of hives and I am not required to by law. There are areas that require beekeepers to use chemicals. The Florida Dept. of Ag. certainly does encourage it even if they are not mandated. Chemical controls against pests have a reason, they work. While people make a move back to non chemical production of produce and other items they should remember why they used chemicals in the first place. Bugs and pests would devestate entire fields of crops. This was a situation that didn't just affect one of two farms it affected entire farming communities. My main fear as with many farmers was the eventuallity of super bugs that were resistant to the chemicals. So chemical management is a critical aspect of dealing with the issues.

Finsky as with many beekeepers in my area is a hobbiest. He produces a very nice crop but he will tell you that he has a day job. He is very serious about his hobby and probably even more serious about his day job.

The varroa mite, the small hive beetle, the wax moth, chaulkbrood, American Foul Brood, and many others pose a seious threat to beekeepers. And while it is nice that I can use permacomb in my hives as a simple solution to a few of the problems it doesn't protect against all of them and it is an expensive solution that grows incrementally. When you have 40 hives with 6 mediums that's $260 for permacomb per hive that $10,400 just for permacomb. Chemical treatment won't be anything near that much. Now what if you are professional with a 300 hives. That would mean no profits.

I am not a fan of chemicals but I see no reason to condemn someone who uses them responsibly. I feel for those who don't want to use them but live in areas where they must use them because of the law.

Sincerely,
Brendhan