Combining monster hives or splitting...?

[BEE C]

Question.  I have a queenless hive that is five deeps high.  There is no brood, but EVERY box is full of bees.  Actually there are some small patches of brood still emerging daily but soon all done.  At least three boxes are full of honey frames being capped in various stages.  The bottom two are mostly old brood cell, cleaned out honey, and pollen.  I was leaving one queen cell in for a new queen, but I thought about combining.  I caught a swarm which is now been requeened, and laying.  The swarm is two deeps.  three frames of honey on the sides and open, cleaned out brood frame in the middle.  I have a queen cell coming from my mentor.  I also just grafted some larvae (20), but that will be three weeks before I have perhaps a few (too many?) viable queens.  Oh yeah the question....If I were to combine the swarm with the monster hive how would you all suggest I arrange the frames and boxes?  I can probably take out a box full of sealed honey frames (10) in a few days leaving me with four deeps in the monster hive.  Question 2.  Could I also add bees from the monster hive to the swarm and expand it?  The monster hive has been queenless for some time, two weeks?  Any suggestions please and thanks... :D [/img]

[Brian D. Bray]

In the situation you describe my course of action would be to take 2 frames of brood from 1 or 2 hives with good queens and split the monster hive into 2.  
Then, if truely queenless both halves will grow their own queens or you can take it as a sign to get new queens to requeen doing so so that the requeening is timed near the hatch date of the queen cells they build.  This will allow better acceptance and the hive won't suffer the delay of waiting for the queen to mate etc.
If you have a idle queen that portion of the split would probably not build queen cells unless they were to undertake supercedure which might not be a bad idea.  I try to use the supercedure trait to my advantage.  When I was taught by my mentor back in the 60's queens were much harder to come by and many beekeepers kept their hives alive and did their re-queening via supercedure.  It still do it the old way.
Combining 2 large haves, especially when 1 is already 5 deeps in size sounds like a sure trip to the hospital on a backboard.  Since I've had numerous trips like that already (not caused from working bees) I'm injury shy.
My approach is tainted by the fact that I do my beekeeping from a wheelchair so such undertakings as the one you suggest is beyond my capabilities.

[BEE C]

Thanks brian, i've been busy working at the commercial apiary so haven't had a chance to say thanks for the reply.  Its raining up here so I haven't had much of a chance to do much.  I gave each original hive a queen cell, and was raising some queens in the big un.  Last night the swarm hive got busted into by a bear and they ate two brood frames and messed everything up.  In a few days when the rain stops I'll sort out the mess.  I scooped up what bees I could this morning and took the two boxes and put them over the smaller hive, over newspaper.  If the queen is still alive she may kill the queen cell, (few days till it emerges) but i can't open everything up in the rain, and only have enough bear safe space for two hives now.  I'm still going to have to do splits but our electric fence is not up and running yet,  :evil: it needs the wire, as the post are up....at least the bears didn't smash the hive equipment only two frames were chewed up...you do beekeeping from a wheelchair!!! I'm impressed.  How do you manage?  Do you have a horizontal hive set up like michael bush has got going on?  Anyway, thanks for the advice.  steve.
p.s. this morning i actually look like my avatar...i've fluctuated from going hunting this morning to just going for the coffee.... :x

[Finsky]

To me 5 deep hive is normal and now it is yield time there too?

It is normal that that kind of hive has it's own unmated queen. It is normal that last bees emerge when new queen starts lay eggs.

If you split the hive the production of honey will drop dramatically. Reason is that after one week hive has two fold measure to raise larvae. Now it is time to collect honey and many make hives queenless for yiled season.

If you need more hives, split the hive when yield is over.

.

[BEE C]

Hey finsky,
Your right the blackberries are the main forage crop within 7miles, and still going on.  I will try to leave the hives combined.  Early this morning I combined with newspaper so one hive is five high and the other 6.  I will wait until the weather is good to check them for queen status, brood, etc.  I don't have any option other than two big hives now until the fence goes up.  I was hoping to split for next year, but now that the bear has a taste of brood, I am skeptical about whether or not I can just use the electric fence.  Only two frames were chewed up, so I am assuming the bees gave the bear whatnot on the nose? but still.