Crazy Hive

Romahawk · August 10, 2006, 12:52:11 PM

I have a crazy hive and I'm not sure what if anything I can do for it this late in the year. It is my or was my best of my four hives with three deeps full of brood and two deeps of honey with a third one just added. As I was checking the top honey super I noticed a swarm cell on the bottom of the frames along with a couple of drone cells. I lifted the box off to check the next honey super and found the same thing. I scraped them off and decided to check the brood chambers. Every one was packed with brood and every brood frame had multiple swarm cells on it. I was sort of over whelmed by the amount of swarm cells and decided there was no way I would get them all with out wrecking the frames so I closed it back up with the new empty honey super added.

Why all the swarm cells when the hive is loaded with brood, has enough room, and seems to have at least one super queen in the hive even though I have never been able to find her. Why isn't the queen who is obviously a real good one by the looks of all the brood in three boxes with a beautiful pattern allowing a gazillion swarm cells to be built. I think this hive is from the Twilight Zone......

Finsky · August 10, 2006, 01:34:41 PM

I use to change last queens when almost all brood had emerged and I feed them for winter.

You may make a flying swarm. Move the hive 5 feet and put the new hive in old site. Give to it one frame of brood and other empty combs (broodless) . When bees have settlet to new home, take brood frame away. Colony feels itself tolally queenless. Then you give a new laying queen.

When most of bees have moved to new hive, it is easier to find the queen.
I think that new queen has time to lay enough brood for winter. When new queen has settled you may joint the old part of hive to new one.

Brian D. Bray · August 11, 2006, 12:35:00 AM

Finsky is describing one way of psuedo swarm a hive which will hopefully enable you to keep all the bees. I would, however, untilize some of those swarm cells in the new hive and destroy the rest.

Finsky · August 11, 2006, 01:19:12 AM

Quote from: Brian D. Brayuntilize some of those swarm cells in the new hive and destroy the rest.

If you have grazy hive, don't take any descendants there. Swarm and attach. You must get rid of that "stock".

Brian, you are fond of all kinds of queen cells but that is not breeding.

Keep on breeding, not only bees.

Romahawk · August 11, 2006, 01:29:51 AM

Thanks guys, I think if tomorrow is a nice day I am going to try and get rid of all the queen cells I can find and see what happens.

Like I said it doesn't make sense to me as the brood in the hive fills nearly all of three hive bodies and is a beautifull full pattern on all the frames. Ordinarily I would say that there is really a super queen in there even though I can't find her. That's why I can't believe there are all those swarm cells in the hive. Looks almost like a darn queen factory... :D

Brian D. Bray · August 11, 2006, 01:31:29 AM

No, I'm not fond of multitudes of queen cells; I do believe, however, in using them to my advantage and reducing what I see as needless costs. When you live on a disability income like I do, every penny counts and $10-20 for a queen is more than I can afford on the spur of the moment. I have to budget for them on a once a year basis.
As a consequence I evaluate my hives for requeening in the fall, order what I need for the spring, and then make do by hook or crook the rest of the year.

Finsky · August 11, 2006, 01:50:18 AM

Yes but. I also raise my queens but I take origin from best hive. I abondon all their self made queens.

This summer I raised queens in one hive which tried to swarm. I changed the larvae. It went well again.

I have used their self raised queen but I have regreted it every time next summer.

It is hard work to keep stock on high level but it is basis to all beekeeping.

HERE IS MY GOAL WITH EVERY HIVE. But in this case I have put together two weak hives :P . But I try to keep my queen stock on this level.
I harvested 240 lbs capped honey in one time from this when I had moved it to fireweed area. They gathered honey during 3 weeks.

Brian D. Bray · August 11, 2006, 03:28:10 AM

I will agree that raising queens from less than desireable stock is not a good idea. I try to utilize my best hives as a resource when replacing queens in mid-season.

There are situations where a beekeeper might not have a real good queen in his entire apiary so he must draw from the best he has. I know you won't agree with the concept that it is better to have a mediocre queen than no queen at all, but there are times when this is the case. A beekeeper with only 1 or 2 hives can't combine more than once and I think it best to teach the beekeeper how to cope until the problem can be solved--call it stop gap beekeeping if you want.

Also, I believe in teaching others as I was taught; that is, to know how to do something (which requires doing it) even if it is not a practice one would normally use or resort to only in an emergency. Over the years I've found that knowing more than one way of doing things (options) can keep a bee yard functioning when it might have otherwise wasted away.

I can see nothing wrong with this approach.

I am also a beekeeper who does not believe that a new queen cures all problems, nor do I think you are. Yet, using your postings as a guide I could easily come to the conclusion that you do believe a new queen solves all beekeeping problems.

Sometimes it's just as important to read between the lines as it is to read what is there.

Finsky · August 15, 2006, 08:00:46 PM

Quote from: Brian D. BrayYet, using your postings as a guide I could easily come to the conclusion that you do believe a new queen solves all beekeeping problems.

You know it does: extracting, canning, selling honey in good price, keep diseases away, to make new frames... lack of knowledge...

How you get honey: put hives on good pastures. How much fields has nectar, it has nothing to do with new queen.

A new queen is new possibility. I change almost all queens every summer. I bye 2 queens and raise from their eggs 30-40 queens per summer.

Romahawk · August 15, 2006, 11:30:51 PM

You are not going to believe this. I took the hive that was loaded with queen cells and cut them all out and so far the hive has not swarmed that I can see. How ever I laid a couple of the biggest and fattest queen cells up on top of the hive next to it and two days later I decided to open one of the cells up and see what a queen looked like before it was hatched. I opened the end and when I did I noticed the tail of the queen move. That's not possible I thought, she has laid out there two days. I opened the rest of the queen cup and she fell out onto the top of the hive and began to crawl around. I watched for a minute and she stumbled to the edge of the metal top and fell over on to the landing board below. I was going to grab her but before I could she ran into the hive. I waited for awhile to see them toss her out but they didn't. Yesterday that hive swarmed and this morning it swarmed again. Could it have been that queen that caused it? My friend and I had checked that hive with the rest of them the other day and it looked to be my best hive and we saw no swarm or supercedure cells in it.

Brian D. Bray · August 16, 2006, 02:04:03 AM

It is most probable that the introducation of that newly hatched queen caused the swarm. The after swarm was problably due to a missed queen cell during the previous inspections.

Romahawk · August 16, 2006, 03:31:04 PM

Thanks Brian, I suspected that might be the case but wanted the opinion of someone else. Boy those little devils do not give a person much slack when the mess up do they?

Now I just hope that laying in that queen cup on top of the hive for two days plus her 3 story fall from the top to the landing board didn't damage her. Hmmmmmm, live and learn I guess.