To exclude or not to exclude, that is the question.

[DayValleyDahlias]

Local beeks told me to use excluder, I see some folks here say not to use an excluder...

I just put an excluder on today...ugh...I really don't want to mess with the hive for a couple of weeks...

Pros & Cons, por favors??

[Kirk-o]

exclude the excluder
kirko

[Kathyp]

i use them, but you have to make sure that the bees go up and work above it.  just take a peek in a couple of days.  i put the honey supers on first and then the excluder a couple of days later.  a light spray of sugar water will encourage them up if you don't want to mess with it.

it's a personal preference thing.  i don't have a long enough season to mess with brood in the honey super.  i also don't have the years of experience of some here....so read everything before you make a decision.

[Understudy]

http://forum.beemaster.com/index.php?topic=5077.0

This topic more than any other has a variety of opinions.
Here is my deal. I don't use them except under certain circumstances.
1. A cut out when I believe the queen is in the new hive body and I don't want her to abscond. I generally remove them after two weeks.
2. A package same reasons as above.
3. I am trying to locate the queen or cut down the brood count. Again this is a temporary situation.

Cons
1. it's a heatsink. You can overtemp your hive with it.
2. It won't keep pollen from your honey supers.
3. It will damage bee wings.
4. The bees will burr and propolis it like there is no tomorrow.
Pros
1. The queen can't escape (this can be a con also)
2. It doesn help keep brood out of honey supers but there are other ways to do that.
3. It can help you locate a queen because you know where she isn't
4. It can cut down on absoconding.

Sincerely,
Brendhan

[DayValleyDahlias]

Dang,  so should I remove the exluder as early as tomorrow??...I disturbed them today pretty good, had the hive open about 20 minutes, put them in a new brood box ( the old one was too tight a fit between the lid and the tops of the frames ).  How about I wait one week before I remove the excluder...will that be okay?

[AllanJ]

Do you have more than 1 hive?  if so, use an excluder on 1 and not on the other.  I have 2 hives and trying out different approaches to each hive this year.

[doak]

I used one of the old plastic ones on one of mine and they would not go up. I used the new plastic type on another and the bees have filled two supers and started on the third.
I do have holes in some of my supers in front just below the hand hold. I have never witnessed a bee with pollen going in these uper holes and haven't found any pollen in any supers where I had an excluder and the holes in the super.
The pro's&con's I look at is, "if you and the bees" like it, do it. If not, don't,

I use one to find the Queen. If you go in today and don't find her. go back in a day or two, can't find her.
Instead, go ahead and get a deep box and put frames with foundation and put the excluder on then another empty box on. Take the frames oneby one and shake/brush the bees into the empty. Sonner or later ther's the queen.

This is only if you "have to find the queen. If you are just wanting to know if you have a queen just find the frame with the most youngest brood and or eggs. If you find eggs you know the queen was there at least 3 days ago.
Thats my pro's& con's
doak

[Kathyp]

i guess the question we didn't ask is why are you using one?  is it to find the queen, or to keep her out of your honey?  if it's to keep her out of the honey, why not leave it for a few days and see how it goes?  if the bees are working the honey supers well, leave it.  if you don't like it, you can pull it later. 

nothing is chiseled in stone.  do what works best for you.  you'll have to try some different things until you have a system that fits your needs.

[DayValleyDahlias]

Okay thanks...I am hoping some of the bees go into the super so that I can at least see what is going on with the frames...I was amazed at the amount of bees...I will leave it on fo one week...our temps here are hot hot, so the heating up thing won't be a problem...

I was told to add a honey super by the local apiary folks, they sold me this amazing nuc...anyhoo...I am seeing so many varied ways here to keep beeeeeeeeez...oi vey...I don't care about the honey at this point, so I guess removing the exclude is okay!

[n9kww]

To use or not to use is a personal issue, but there are some very compelling reasons to use the excluder.
1. honey for sale? is so ( depending on local health inspectors or not) the use of the excluder will ensure you don't have any brood in your honey supers.
2. it makes working with honey supers easy ( no queen to kill) if you have a few to go through this will save you lots of hours and money for new queens.
3. less mess, the bees will make less of a mess in the honey stores than the brood chamber ( i don't know why but after 40 years of working with bees they seem to just work that way)
now some folks have short seasons or some other reason. some say the bees will not work as hard with one in use others say dosn't matter. I have used the steel excluders for years and have had no issues other than cleaning them once in awhile.
Hope this helps
there is no right answer here, try it both ways and see what works for you,
Ron

[DayValleyDahlias]

Thanks Ron...I don't feel as paniked about placing it on...

Sharon

[TwT]

some use them and some dont, I only put them between the bottom board and bottom hive body for different reasons, one is when I catch a swarm and dont want the queen to leave (leave it on for a week) and the other is for a mouse guard during the fall and winter, keeps them mice from tearing up the comb.... some times when you put a excluder on and just foundation above the bee's dont want to move up but if you have drawn comb above they will move up most the time....

[Jerrymac]

I haven't used any as yet but I just noticed something. Use to be some one would suggest placing the excluder at a right angle in the hive. This still blocked the queen from wanting to go up. It would allow the bees easier passage around the excluder, and it caused other entrances for the bees. What became of that idea?

[doak]

I still use that idea. The queen seldom lays in the outer two frames or close to either end. And they, most often start in the middle. If you queen exclud 4/5th of the spacein the middle, it gives the bees access to go up with out going through the excluder. Works for me.
doak

[Michael Bush]

I only use excluders in queen rearing and occasional manipulations to let brood emerge from combs I intend to remove.

[Brian D. Bray]

I use a queen excluder for keeping a queen from absconding and in making sure that the queen doesn't get into comb honey supers, other than that they are basically worthless.