laying worker problems

[Hi-Tech]

I am definitely open for some suggestions.

I had a hive that had no queen and a laying worker.

Plan #1
I did a shake of the frames about 50 feet away to get rid of the laying worker.
I purchased a queen (in a queen cage) and placed it in the hive.
The laying worker returned and killed the queen in the cage.

OK….

Plan #2
I carried the hive a hundred yards away.
I placed a new hive in the original location of the old one
The field bees returned to the new hive while some stayed with the old hive.
I did a shake of the old hive again to remove the laying worker.
I left everything alone for 5 days and then placed a queen (in cage) in each hive.
1 week later…. Empty queen cages in each hive but no queen and no laying worker in either hive.

OK….

Now I have 2 weak hives with no queen. I am not 100% sure there is no laying worker in the old original hive.

HELP!!!

[Michael Bush]

There are thousands of laying workers in the original hive.  Shaking them out will not get rid of any of them.

http://www.bushfarms.com/beeslayingworkers.htm

[pdmattox]

Did you put brood in with the the hive? Sorry to hear about the tough times, I've had some problems with mine lately as well.

[Hi-Tech]

There are probably less than 500 bees in each hive now... Is either worth saving? Which one of your options would you recommend? I do have 3 other decent hives to help me if I choose to use them..

[Hi-Tech]

I did put a frame of brood in the new hive in the old location. No queen cells were made. I have had so much trouble with these hives I am tempted to just let them die a natural death.

[pdmattox]

Both plans looked good to me and I guess i would just shake the remaining bees out and take the euipment away with me so the wax moths don't destroy it. Then you can use the comb to change out for brood frames to make a nuc.

[Robo]

The best method I have found for dealing with a laying workers is to newspaper combine them with a stronger hive, or multiple hives if big.   Then you can do a split later to get your hive numbers back.   Giving a hive a frame of fresh eggs is always a good litmus test to see if they are ready for a new queen.  If they don't attempt to make queen cells, then they will most likely not accept your new queen.

[Michael Bush]

>There are probably less than 500 bees in each hive now... Is either worth saving?

The simplest and most foolproof is to shake them out in front of other hives and put the equipment on the other hives.  Do a split later if you want more hives.  You can try the newspaper combine, and it works some of the time, but sometimes the laying workers kill the queen and then you have BIG laying worker hive. In your case the odds are better as the laying worker hives are very small.

[Hi-Tech]

Michael, that sound like the plan for me... I am tired of fooling with those girls...

[Brian D. Bray]

Once a hive has gone totally laying worker it is very hard to correct it into becoming queen right. 
Part of the problem is that even queen right hives can have a few laying workers (eggs above the excluder?) and a queenless hive has thousands of them. 

the most successful way to requeen a laying worker hive is to keep feeding it brood combs while shaking out the hive every time.  After a number of shakes and adding several frames of brood the hive may start to build queen cells.  At that point you can add another frame of brood and introduce a queen with likely success. 

It has been my finding that until you can induce an established laying worker hive to begin building queen cells it is hopeless to try and requeen.  The only other possible successful solution is to combine with the newspaper method but as MB stated, it is still possible to loose the queen or have a combined queen right and laying worker hive.  Both at the same time.