What will the results of my mistake be?

Started by Holycow, June 26, 2007, 08:44:30 PM

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Holycow

Howdy Folks,
Two weeks ago I added an empty (except for frames) super between my two boxes that were getting full (brood in center honey toward the top). I dug around in there for a while to see where the queen might be, very few eggs or brood in the top box so I figured it was ok to move it on top of an empty one..
WELL, yesterday I look in there and sure enough.. there are eggs and larva in the top box.. WHoops.
Again I dig a little to see if I can spot queenie, but no luck. Her handy work is evident tho' and eggs had been laid within 24 hours there SO.
Now from bottom to top I have- a full super (brood and larva.. no eggs evident)- empty super box (except for frames)- nearly full super (eggs & larva).
Should I switch them back? Will this cause the colony to rear a second queen? What are further ramifications of this scenereo?
The hive seems to be getting into full gear.. many healthy bees (seems more and more each day) very few (if any) drones.
Weather here is 90's during the day 80's and night raining every afternoon for 45 min. then clearing.
Thanks-
--Jeff

Kathyp

if it were me...i'd put that empty on top.  ?s:  what size are your supers?  was this intended to be a brood super or honey super?
The people the people are the rightful masters of both congresses and courts not to overthrow the Constitution, but to overthrow the men who pervert it.

Abraham  Lincoln
Speech in Kansas, December 1859

Holycow

Ha.. forgot! There is an empty on top with little activity in it. I figured this would act as the "attic"  and be the very hot spot since it's been so warm. All boxes are 10 frame deeps.
My intent was to encourage the bees to expand the brood area into the middle box and then use the top box for honey.
At least that was the "plan." Seemed like they would fill the space since it was open between two busy areas.
--Jeff

Kathyp

QuoteSeemed like they would fill the space since it was open between two busy areas.

they may if you have enough of a flow, long enough.  how many deep do you want to be for winter?  if you want to be 2 deep, then you want the majority of your brood in the bottom boxes.  that will make it easier to force them down.  if you want honey, you want your honey supers on the top and if they have some brood in them, that's ok.  not everyone uses an excluder.

i'm thinking that if you keep your empty boxes on the top, you have an easier time when winter comes, or an easier time seeing how much they are building up...and seeing if they'll fill the top with honey.

a two queen hive is not a bad thing  :-)

anyway...that's the way i'd go.
The people the people are the rightful masters of both congresses and courts not to overthrow the Constitution, but to overthrow the men who pervert it.

Abraham  Lincoln
Speech in Kansas, December 1859

Holycow

I'm south of Miami here in FL. So "winter" is not a problem.

Moonshae

I'm hardly the most knowledgeable, but I'd say that they'll use the space they need for brood and the rest for storage. They'll adjust to the arrangements, I'd think disturbing them again right away would be a bigger issue than the box arrangement. More experienced beeks may disagree, and I'd like to hear their input. :)
"The mouth of a perfectly contented man is filled with beer." - Egyptian Proverb, 2200 BC

sean

> I'm hardly the most knowledgeable

I'm in the same boat but i would suggest that you put the two brood boxes together.
1) you are splitting the brood area which cannot be a good thing.
2 ) i think thats too much space which will allow an influx of beetles and other pests

Robo

I would suggest putting the two brood supers together and put some empty frames in each.  This would give them some room in the brood area, and with full frames of brood on each side of the empty frames you will have a better chance they draw them out straighter.
"Opportunity is missed by most people because it comes dressed in overalls and looks like work." - Thomas Edison



Understudy

Put the two brood chambers together like Robo said.

Sincerely,
Brendhan
The status is not quo. The world is a mess and I just need to rule it. Dr. Horrible

Bennettoid


Kris^

Three years ago I split the brood boxes like you did, as an experiment.  They never did expand into the center box like I expected they would, and I can't help but think it may have caused them to produce less honey than they might have; I got very little that year, but it could have been the dry summer we had, too.  I'd put the separate brood boxes back together.

-- Kris

Holycow

Well, the results seem to be in.  This Say/Sun I'll open it up and see whats happening on the inside.  If no new construction in the "middle box" I will likely put them back together.
Took a peek in the "attic" box today and the crafty gals are up there working like crazy. I have a couple ideas as to why.
I might change my mind again.. who knows.
Experiments .. experiments.
--Jeff

Brian D. Bray

Putting an empty super can cause the same thing as a split.  2 separate brood chambers (and queens) in the same hive. 
In nearly 60 years of beekeeping I've learned a few things the hard way. 
1.  Keep you brood area together--always.
2.  Give your queen as much room as she needs to grow the hive as big as possible (production).
3.  Reduce the hive size at harvest time.  having 1 size of box allows for taking a few frames of brood from a basically honey super and move the brood down and honey up.  Uniformity of size rocks.
4.  Feed only when mother nature can't feed them.
5.  Let the bees be bees.

That ought to do it for starters.
Life is a school.  What have you learned?   :brian:      The greatest danger to our society is apathy, vote in every election!

Holycow

I thought maybe dividing the chamber like that could result in a double queen situation.  This hive has plenty of workers, if I just took that  full bottom box and stuck another box of frames (and lid and bottom) on it and sat it two feet to the right would this likely just keep on rolling once the theoretical "new queen" emerges? Plenty of flowers blooming here so bee food is not in short supply.
It's great to hear from people who know what they are doing. I suspect I have the basics but I can't keep myself from changing things around to "see if what happens is what I thought would happen". Does this make sense?
--Jeff

Brian D. Bray

>>I suspect I have the basics but I can't keep myself from changing things around to "see if what happens is what I thought would happen". Does this make sense?

It makes sense.  But one of the things you should soon learn in doing that is that if you want honey harvest you need to let the bees be bees.  Having several hives for production and 1 to experiment with might solve both perameters.
Life is a school.  What have you learned?   :brian:      The greatest danger to our society is apathy, vote in every election!