trying to learn about ventilation

bbqbee · July 17, 2007, 12:01:12 AM

I am excited about the use of ventilation as I have been out of bee keeping for over 16 years. The idea of bottom screens and "attics" (Boxs with screen holes for inner covers) is exciting to me and makes a lot of sense.

Now the tuff part. I am in western Montana and although they call this the Banana belt of MT. it still can get pretty cold ( -5f to -20f) where can I learn more about wintering hives with these devices in place?

Bill

Zoot · July 17, 2007, 12:58:19 AM

I don't think that you're going to do much beyond the typical top ventilating in the winter out there. Brian D.bray (who posts here) is a big advocate of ventilation (ssb's, screened shims, top entrances, etc) but these are generally devices that prove useful in warmer weather.

KONASDAD · July 17, 2007, 03:08:45 PM

I would look at Honey Run Apiaries all season cover. Its is a screened and vented summer cover, that comes w/ hard isnulation board to be placed in winter time. Relatively inexpensive, but easy to copy. It looks real good. I just started using and have not gone through winter with'em, but i suspect they will do better than my traditional set-up from last winter. Simple design and really helps w/ the heat so far. I also use SBB and slatted racks as well. Each additional piece in this set-up noticeably improved cooling and in conjunction w/ each other, awesome so far.

Understudy · July 17, 2007, 05:27:27 PM

When winter comes seal the screened bottom boards with cardboard or something similar. You can close your top entrances during winter. In winter I would thing you want to keep as much heat in as possible.

Please note this is coming from someone who lives in South Florida. Winter to me is anything below 70F/21.1C. I also don't winter my bees.

Sincerely,
Brendhan

Michael Bush · July 17, 2007, 07:58:11 PM

I would definitely want a top entrance over winter. I would close the sbb with a tray of some kind.

bbqbee · July 17, 2007, 08:59:29 PM

Thank you for the responses... I am very interested in the Honey Run A. tops. And will be ordering them soon. I am also wandering if using an empty deep hive body under the screened bottom board, flush with the ground ie. air tight, would allow mites to continue to drop and keep the hive warm enough in winter?

what do you folks think.

Bill

Kathyp · July 17, 2007, 09:27:16 PM

i have cold and wet winters. i do not use a top entrance for winter. i figure 1. heat rises and 2. my rain come sideways. in winter i put the board that comes with the SBB back in, close the top and any vent holes in boxes, and put on an entrance reducer. i do not wrap my hives, but we get a very nasty east wind, so i put a piece of plywood up as a windbreak. i lean it against the front top of the hives to make an A frame. this also keeps snow and ice from blocking the front entrance.

bbqbee · July 18, 2007, 12:24:15 AM

Kathy... how cold does it get over there and do you have trouble with moisture buildup.

Michael Bush · July 18, 2007, 07:50:02 AM

Try a search on "top entrance" and see what Finsky says about their use in cold climates like yours.

Robo · July 18, 2007, 09:14:23 AM

Quote from: bbqbee on July 17, 2007, 08:59:29 PM
I am also wandering if using an empty deep hive body under the screened bottom board, flush with the ground ie. air tight, would allow mites to continue to drop and keep the hive warm enough in winter?

what do you folks think.

Bill

Although my climate is not quite as cold as yours, I don't leave SBB on during the winter. I know you'll hear from those that do and "cold doesn't kill bees, moisture does". But... cold does reduce brood rearing, and I find much better brood rearing in the spring if they are warmer. I completely close off the bottoms of my hives and put a small top entrance in to let moisture out. I close off my SBB in October and don't re-open until May/June.

As Michael suggested, read up on what Finsky has to say. Although I don't use the aquarium heaters (I'm too cheap, I use night lights instead). I have had very good results.

randydrivesabus · July 18, 2007, 09:42:50 AM

Quote from: Michael Bush on July 18, 2007, 07:50:02 AM
Try a search on "top entrance" and see what Finsky says about their use in cold climates like yours.

whatever happened to Finsky? maybe too busy.....?

Cindi · July 18, 2007, 10:46:17 AM

I think Finsky is really annoyed about his giving advice and feeling like people let it go in one ear and out the other ear, without staying a moment inside. Cindi

Cindi · July 18, 2007, 10:48:00 AM

Robo, right, I remember you speaking about using the night lite in your colonies for warmth and earlier spring build up. But, I am curious here. How do you get the nite lights in each hive? Do you have cords for each nite lite that attach to something like a power bar with multiple plugs in it? Define this for us. Have a wonderful day, great life. Cindi

Kathyp · July 18, 2007, 11:03:11 AM

last year i had some problems with moisture when the rain came sideways. i ended up making a rain guard of sorts, with roofing paper. other than that, no problem. the SBB still lets any moisture leave from the bottom, it's just that when the board is in, the wind and cold are blocked. i also use an inner cover even in the winter. it gives me a small air space that seems to help with moisture accumulating on the top cover.

my protected temps are as low as 20 degrees. wind chill takes me to your temps or lower. i live at the base of mt hood in oregon and get a gorge wind from eastern oregon. it can be nasty and it also gives us awesome ice storms every other year or so :-)

Cindi · July 18, 2007, 11:16:29 AM

Kathy, I remember your plight of last winter and the tar paper. It made such a huge impact on my memory. I keep hearing over and over how important it is for the inner cover to have a slot in it for ventilation in wintertime, the moisture espaces through this hole/slot, call it what you may. Warm air rises, along with condensation. The cold will not kill the bees, it is any moisture build up that may drip cold water onto the cluster, that is the killer.

You have told us that the wind brings moisture into the hive, that is a very real concern. BUT...now I must ask, does the wind always blow from one particular side or is it all around? Perhaps you could use inner covers in wintertime that had a couple of small holes drilled in the lea side of the colonies? This could be used all year around, even in summer to.

I don't know if this type of design would/could be applicable to your harsh weather, but it is some food for thought. Have a wonderful day, girl, great life to boot. Cindi

KONASDAD · July 18, 2007, 11:28:06 AM

Quote from: bbqbee on July 17, 2007, 08:59:29 PM
Thank you for the responses... I am very interested in the Honey Run A. tops. And will be ordering them soon. I am also wandering if using an empty deep hive body under the screened bottom board, flush with the ground ie. air tight, would allow mites to continue to drop and keep the hive warm enough in winter?

what do you folks think.

Bill

Never thought of that. Sounds like a neat idea. I kept one hive w/ sbb open, and another closed. The hive w/ the open bottom exploded numbers wise compared to other hive. No other noticeable differance. I get a handful of single digit days, and had a very cold winter for our area this past w/ a few consecutive weeks of sub-20 weather and they did fine either way.

Kathyp · July 18, 2007, 11:28:17 AM

i have small holes drilled in the back of each deep. they are near the top. last winter, i closed the hole in the bottom deep and left the one in the top deep open unless the wind & rain came from that direction, or the temp really dropped. last year was pretty bad. worse than we usually have.
once i had taken care of the rain blowing under the lid, the hive seemed to stay fairly dry. it is something i will watch this year, but will continue to do as last year if it works. K.I.S.S. :-)

Brian D. Bray · July 18, 2007, 08:23:18 PM

On ventilation and winter. I use a SSB, Slatted Rack, Brood Boxes, and top entrances. I have found that the slatted rack provides enough of a thermal layer so that closing off the bottom is not necessary. At least not down to 15-20F, lower ? I leave my SBB open year around without problems. I also don't lose any more hives than normal except when 80-90 mph winds blow the hives over and blows the bees to who knows where. 80-90 mph winds in December with 15-20F temps with hive blow over is a sure hive loss regardless of where you are.

Zoot · July 18, 2007, 10:13:09 PM

I wintered 2 of my hives with ssb's and slatted racks this past season and I am convinced that the lower slatted racks do provide a constant thermal layer. After a balmy start to the past winter we eventually had temps down to -5f and possibly even lower. Very cold for us these days and it was prolonged. No, I don't have any thermal imaging equipment to prove it but I do know what healthy, robust hives look like in the early spring and I was one of the few around here to have them. I even forgot to replace my ssb inserts in the fall so those 2 hives wintered comfortably with that additional exposure below the slatted racks.

Cindi · July 19, 2007, 10:21:59 AM

I am still having a problem grasping the concept of the slatted bottomboard and how it works. I understand the principle, but go a little deeper for me please. I realize the dowels run the length of the hive. But, I think where I am getting hung up, is how are the frames positioned above the dowels? Can this be elaborated on? Have a wonderful day, great life. Cindi