Aggressive Hive

papabear · September 09, 2007, 11:27:52 AM

:( I have a hive that is a swarm i caught in the spring from a yard that has had bees for 6 years that is very gentle. Ater hiving them, they starting getting hot. Now they are so aggressive I can't even stand 3 feet away from the hive just to look. Thebees otside of the hive start buzzing loud and within 3 to 4 seconds thay start coming out after me. What's up? The LA ag department just found AHB just 30 miles north and 50 miles south from here. When I open the hive I use smoke wait then open and they just cover me. They follow me away from the hive for hundreds of yards sometimes, most of the time it's about 50 to 100 yards away. What do I do? I put a new queen in about 6 weeks ago but I didn't get rid of the other queen now I can't find the marked queen. I guess she was killed! What do I do? My wife wants me to kill the bees because she thinks they might attack a family member. Any advice?

MrILoveTheAnts · September 09, 2007, 12:00:33 PM

If they're finding AFB north of you then it's likely they are AFBees. Though they might not have been when you caught them. You could try to requeen again but this time be sure to cut the other queen in two.

Jerrymac · September 09, 2007, 01:11:23 PM

Quote from: papabear on September 09, 2007, 11:27:52 AM
:( I have a hive that is a swarm i caught in the spring from a yard that has had bees for 6 years that is very gentle.

This doesn't mean they came from those gentle bees. They could have come from an Africanized colony somewhere. Just because no one has seen them in your area doesn't mean they are not there.

Kirk-o · September 09, 2007, 04:30:25 PM

Well I live in L A and I've had hot bees before.All my bees are Feral.It dosen't do much good to try and figure out if they are Africanized or not.If they are to mean to manage read Michael Bush's web page read divide and conquer
that is a very simple effective way to handle hot bees.If you get into all the Think Think Think about Africanized bees you might not manage them correctly.I have Africanized bees from Arizona they are Manageable.Read Bush's site on handleing hot bees its a simple solution like all his subbestions
kirko send me a message if you need any help

Michael Bush · September 09, 2007, 10:56:29 PM

http://www.bushfarms.com/beesrequeeninghot.htm

you might want to peruse this:
http://www.bushfarms.com/beesglossary.htm

and get your acronyms straight...

Understudy · September 09, 2007, 11:02:00 PM

Let me say this simply:
Requeen
Requeen
Requeen

Also as Michael has pointed out on his links split them down.

I don't have any scientific proof for this but the larger a hive the more aggressive it is apt to be. One of the reasons I limit the size of my hives.

Sincerely,
Brendhan

TwT · September 10, 2007, 01:17:09 AM

if you ever have any questions about a hot hive requeen it, if you are not sure they are ahb's buy a queen or move a frame from a gentle hive and kill all other cells on the original frames, from what I have heard you need to release a queen in a AHB hive just like introducing a Russian queen in a Italian hive, put the cage in and dont pull the plug for 5 days, then pull the plug and let them release her from the queen candy side, not the empty side...

JP · September 10, 2007, 02:32:35 AM

Papa bear, I don't know anything about the hive in question, other than they are hot, from what you have described, so I will throw out another possibility. What if you have a large, queenless hive. They would be ugly. Either way, you have to requeen, but just a thought. If you have a queen, and they are AHB, I agree with the M.B. way of thinking, split them down, reduce their numbers and they lose the attitude, and of course requeen.

Michael Bush · September 10, 2007, 07:29:14 AM

>One of the reasons I limit the size of my hives.

But if you limit the size of the hives you'll get very little honey. A hive that is twice as strong makes four times as much honey.

JP · September 10, 2007, 11:06:58 AM

I agree with you Michael. Large numbers mean more bees to gather nectar, more production. I like large hives, and my largest make the most honey.

genesbees · September 10, 2007, 12:06:44 PM

papabear,

When you lift up a frame of brood from the hive, do the nurse bees cover the brood or do they run to the edges and festoon down toward the hive? I have found this to be a pretty reliable indication as to whether or not a hive is showing Africanized characteristics. You can have EHB hives that are just as hot as AHB's, but they still tend to cover the brood when a frame is lifted up. If they are AHB, the best way to re-queen is with a push in cage over emerging brood. You may even need to move the queen and push in cage to fresh emerging brood a couple of times to get them to accept an EHB queen.

papabear · September 10, 2007, 04:52:13 PM

Thanks for the help but isn't it to late to requeen now in second week of sep?

mgmoore7 · September 10, 2007, 05:26:56 PM

So do I understand you find that the Africanized hive festoons on the bottom of the fram when lifting up. The "hot" hive I have does that too. I had not heard this before.

Quote from: genesbees on September 10, 2007, 12:06:44 PM
papabear,

When you lift up a frame of brood from the hive, do the nurse bees cover the brood or do they run to the edges and festoon down toward the hive? I have found this to be a pretty reliable indication as to whether or not a hive is showing Africanized characteristics. You can have EHB hives that are just as hot as AHB's, but they still tend to cover the brood when a frame is lifted up. If they are AHB, the best way to re-queen is with a push in cage over emerging brood. You may even need to move the queen and push in cage to fresh emerging brood a couple of times to get them to accept an EHB queen.

Bennettoid · September 10, 2007, 08:37:55 PM

You guys blow my mind with your combined knowledge.

Michael Bush · September 10, 2007, 10:26:38 PM

>I have found this to be a pretty reliable indication as to whether or not a hive is showing Africanized characteristics.

This is also a typical characteristic of Apis Mellifera Mellifera or the German black bees or any feral bees that have not been breed to not be runny.

Scadsobees · September 11, 2007, 09:32:22 AM

I had a nice calm hive that was verry runny and would festoon off of the frames. It was impossible to find the queen, she was all over the place. They requeened and don't do that any more.

??It is an undesireable trait and therefore an indication of wild or perhaps african genes that haven't been bred out of a cultured hive. ??

Michael Bush · September 11, 2007, 11:09:46 PM

>??It is an undesireable trait and therefore an indication of wild or perhaps african genes that haven't been bred out of a cultured hive. ??

It was a desirable trait in the days of skeps and bee gums. You could run the bees out of the hive and then harvest the honey. But since Langstroth hives took over it has been an undesirable trait. It's not that hard to breed out really, but I still get a slightly runny one now and then.

Cindi · September 12, 2007, 02:06:47 AM

Michael, are you somewhat anal retentive? "Get your acronymns straight"? That was a harsh thing to say and I have no qualms about saying this. I bet most people don't even know what that means!!!! I am a perfectionist at spelling, and definitely anal retentive at many, many things too. So....I know where you are coming from. But....try to be a little more gentle. :-P :)Great day. Cindi

Post modified, and I apologize for being so grumpy anyways. Acronyms get so easily mixed up and I must lighten up with things that I say too, like asking Michael if he is was somewhat anal retentive. My deep apology, just a person who was grumpy and got bugged by something. Sorry Kathy, I apologize to you too, I don't why I typed your name in the original post :roll: :) Have a wonderful day. Cindi

Michael Bush · September 12, 2007, 08:08:44 AM

>Kathy, are you somewhat anal retentive? "Get your acronymns straight"? That was a harsh thing to say and I have no qualms about saying this.

I think I said that. Sort of. Actually I said:

>you might want to peruse this:
>http://www.bushfarms.com/beesglossary.htm

>and get your acronyms straight...

I don't think Kathy made a post on this subject. I offered an acronym glossary to help. I did not mean it to be harsh, but it's less confusing if we use the right acronyms. I'm certainly sorry if it came off as harsh.

There is, however, a lot of difference between having AFB and AHB, even if neither is a good thing to have.

Kris^ · September 12, 2007, 05:20:54 PM

Quote from: JP on September 10, 2007, 02:32:35 AM
What if you have a large, queenless hive. They would be ugly.

I agree! One of my big hives went loud and nasty in mid-summer, and I even got stung on the ear from over 30 feet away one day. A few days later I went into it, and there was no queen -- and no brood, meaning the queen had been gone for several weeks. I put a frame of brood and eggs in, and they settled right down. Although the month and a half interval without a queen set them back considerably, I think they're doing well enough to make it through winter. Something to think about as you hived them from a swarm, and a queen can get lost in the process.

-- Kris