Apistan

BBHJ · October 21, 2007, 03:17:49 PM

I have a ? and would like to share my expierance this year with the queens I used O.k. first of all I'd planned on replacing some of the comb in all of my hives come spring time. Reason? Its old (although I dont know how old, as the boxes, bees, & already drawn comb were given to me) & I know your supposed to replace old comb every 3-5 years or so. The guy that gave these splits to me uses Apistan and rotates every year with another kind of treatment. We placed new queens in these splits this spring with supposedly very good Russian queens. We lost the queen in EVERY HIVE after about 1-3 months. In 1 hive we lost the queen 3 times before they finnally settled on one and in another we lost the queen twice. I'm almost certain that we lost the first queen in one of the hives because of them swarmming. The second queen is still doing great in this hive. I'm also almost certain that this is the ONLY hive that swarmed. Now we may have accidently killed a queen or two I dont know. But anyway loosing 11 queens out of 6 hives hurt. We did end up collecting 19 supers from these 6 hives this year but I cant help but wonder how many supers these hives could have filled if they would have kept their queens, especially the 1 hive that went through 3 of them. When each hive lost its queen we let them raise their own instead of introducing new queens to the hives all over agian. Even the one that lost 3 queens (the last two queens replaced were queens that hive raised themselves). I've decided to raise my own queens from the mother of our best hive next year. Actually its the one hive that swarmed. The bees are VERY calm, produce a good crop (collected 5 supers off of this hive even though they swarmed like a week before the soy beans bloomed :-x) They also dont seem to have any pest or disease problems. This hive built up quick and not long after the swarm its population was strong again. As of right now its not our strongest hive but its in a close 3rd place. I may use our 2 strongest hives aswell although they are pretty agressive and I dont care for that trait. Theyve been VERY strong all year though and produced 4 supers each. Anyway I'm hoping that raising my own queen from mothers that are used to this particular area will be a benifit, & make next year a little easier especially since we plan on having 3-4 times as many hives.

Now on replacing the comb. I've been told as well as read to replace 2-3 frames a year. But if there is chemical residue from apistan or other treatments in the combs and the wax gets reused through out the hive (to build new comb ect.) shouldn't ALL of the combs be replaced with new foundation to completely get rid of the residue? I know this would cause the hive to not produce much if any surplus but woundnt this be the only way to get rid of the residues?

Michael Bush · October 21, 2007, 09:30:19 PM

>I have a ?

I am hearing similar stories all over the world. Queens are being superseded at an average rate of three times a year according to some of the "bee scientists".

Brian D. Bray · October 21, 2007, 09:52:14 PM

I will repeat something I wrote in answer to another post.

I have gone to using nothing but foundationless hives, not even starter strips. I put my new bees into foundationless hives, just as if the hive were feral. Of 4 pacakges the only hive that replaced the queen was 1 I placed on some old wax coated plastic frames I had hanging around because I bought a 4th package when I went to pick up the 3 I had ordered and didn't have enough equipment made up at the time for the 4th package. That queen was replaced within 2 weeks of installation. I also have not detected a varroa problem using foundationless frames as the 2nd box I put on hive with the plastic frames were foundationless. The other 3 hives seem to still be varroa free.

If you want to keep your queens, buy them from someone who does not use chemical treatments and then put them on frames that do not have contaminated wax. Presently the only way to ensure that the queens are not exposed to contaminated wax is to use foundationless frames.

Using Old contaminated comb and use of chemicals in the hive will kill your queens or force supercedure.

Old Timer · October 23, 2007, 04:21:25 PM

>You must elaborate on what you would like me to take pictures of.

go to http://www.sare.org/publications/factsheet/0305_02.htm for a good description of testing for hygienic behavior. take some pictures of cutting or freezing the comb and some of the brood 48 hours after you freeze it or give it back. then take some pics of the ones that take longer. you have to do the test twice. the bees that cleaned out the frozen brood has to do it two consecutive time before they are considered hygienic. it is time consuming but it is rewarding and you will know which of your hives if any are hygienic. iwas watching a bee clean out some drone brood when i was inspecting the other day. i helped her out and pulled out the pupa and there was a mite on it at the end of it's abdomen. i randomly did some sugar rolls and only had three mites at the most of all the tests. i don't feel as bad about the two or three mites i find here and there after reading about the bees you had that were in the 700 club. wow, how sad you lost them.

Cindi · October 24, 2007, 01:17:10 AM

Old Timer, I must re-read this post and comment further. I had to put down a pooch of mine today, she was old, deaf as a doornail (this has been in the past two months), her life has been going downihill so quickly I am befuddled. I am tripping over her in the nightime because she is so black. She is an inside dog, Rottweiller, Labrador cross, it has been very traumatic, but I will be back on the track tomorrow. Today has been a very bad day. C.U. tomorrow and I will have comments, I love this forum!!!! Have a wonderful and beautiful day in this life we all share. Cindit

Finsky · October 24, 2007, 07:53:24 AM

Resistancy in England

Europe

http://www.vita-europe.com/Map_enscript/frmbuilder.php?dateiname=%2Fen%2Fmonitoring.htm

randydrivesabus · October 24, 2007, 09:18:43 AM

it would be interesting to see a current map to see if the resistance has spread.

Michael Bush · October 24, 2007, 10:02:48 PM

The Varroa have been resistant to Apistan here since 1999.
http://entomology.unl.edu/beekpg/tidings/btid1999/btdoct99.htm#Article3

In Florida and South Dakota since 1997.
http://entomology.unl.edu/beekpg/tidings/btid1997/btiddc97.htm#Item1

My guess is they are all resistant by now.

Cindi · October 24, 2007, 11:34:05 PM

Old Timer. I have bookmarked the site you cited and will peruse at another time. I have also noted your comments regarding picture taking. Why not? I will be performing these actions when the brood begins good and strong next spring. Have a wonderful and beautiful day, Cindi.

Finsky · October 25, 2007, 05:12:57 AM

Quote from: randydrivesabus on October 24, 2007, 09:18:43 AM
it would be interesting to see a current map to see if the resistance has spread.

Why? It is enough when you know that give up apistan and change medication

randydrivesabus · October 25, 2007, 07:05:25 AM

Quote from: Finsky on October 25, 2007, 05:12:57 AM
Quote from: randydrivesabus on October 24, 2007, 09:18:43 AM
it would be interesting to see a current map to see if the resistance has spread.

Why? It is enough when you know that give up apistan and change medication

for dramatic impact on those who aren't easily accepting of what seems obvious to many of us.

Finsky · October 25, 2007, 01:09:31 PM

I learned to believe 5 years ago when that fluvinate resistant mite killed half of my yard.

Cindi · October 26, 2007, 12:06:43 AM

Personally, I think that pyrethroids should be outlawed for use in honeybee colonies. They don't work anymore, yes once upon a time, long ago. The mites have built up resistance, period. No ifs, ands, or buts. But listen to Finsky, he lost half of his yard because of resistant mites, I am thinking that was probably an awful lot of honeybees. Have a wonderful and beautiful day in this great world. Cindi

Michael Bush · October 26, 2007, 07:20:46 AM

>But listen to Finsky, he lost half of his yard because of resistant mites,

And he was one of the lucky ones. I lost virtually all of mine to Varroa in fall of 2001 while using Apistan and I know of several large beekeepers around here a couple of years ago who lost all of theirs while using Apistan.

Cindi · October 26, 2007, 10:49:59 AM

What the blazes!!!! So why on earth are comoupous and fluvalinate still sold as registered bee products, I simply do not get it!!!!! There otta be a law!! Have a wonderful and beautiful day, Cindi

randydrivesabus · October 26, 2007, 05:17:20 PM

what is worse than them being sold is being recommended by those who are so called experts.

Finsky · October 29, 2007, 10:43:26 AM

Quote from: Michael Bush on October 26, 2007, 07:20:46 AM
>But listen to Finsky, he lost half of his yard because of resistant mites,

And he was one of the lucky ones. I lost virtually all of mine to Varroa in fall of 2001

I had in autumn 18 hives 5 years ago. In spring I had 4 normal and 6 coffee cup size (1-frame). The lost was 60%.

Cindi · October 30, 2007, 12:03:18 AM

I am sorry, but this Apistan crap is bugging the crap out of me. Why, why, why is even sold on the market, same as the other known chemical that mites are resistant to. I cannot understand nor can I comprehend this. Beekeepers KNOW it does not work....it has created an incideous issue with mites building up restistance to these "chemicals". Take it from there what you believe chemicals to be.

Say no to "comouphous and fluvalonite"!!!! Have a great and wonderful day, best of our life. Cindi

Old Timer · October 30, 2007, 12:49:14 PM

As long as there are lazy beekeepers who do not practice IPM, or monitor mite levels and properly use soft treatments to keep their mite infestation under control, there will be hard treatments available to them. I'm sure there are beekeepers out there who have no idea that they are breeding or were breeding resistant mites. These are the same guys who will throw some Apistan into their hives every fall regardless of if they need or not.

Cindi · January 18, 2008, 12:55:54 AM

This was an interesting thread, and I thought that I would bring it back to the forefront, for anyone who wants some interesting "stuff" to read about.

I am on an agenda this spring for testing for hygienic queens. Don't know if I will be able to completely perform this task, but finding out whether a queen heading her colony has propagated hygienic qualities is a pretty important quality to have. Beautiful day in this greatest of life. Cindi