Questions and Advice

Amanda · January 12, 2008, 04:14:16 PM

Do meduims work just as well for brood chambers as deeps? If the deeps aren't better for the bees, then why do most places use deeps for starter kits? I've told my dad that smaller ones are lighter, but he says not to bother because he doesn't mind lifting them for me. If the medium ones work just as well, then we will probably get those. Also, some sites, like Mann Lake, don't mention small cell foundation. If it doesn't specifically say small cell, do you assume it isn't small cell?

Understudy · January 12, 2008, 04:39:52 PM

Quote from: Amanda on January 12, 2008, 04:14:16 PM
Do meduims work just as well for brood chambers as deeps? If the deeps aren't better for the bees, then why do most places use deeps for starter kits? I've told my dad that smaller ones are lighter, but he says not to bother because he doesn't mind lifting them for me. If the medium ones work just as well, then we will probably get those. Also, some sites, like Mann Lake, don't mention small cell foundation. If it doesn't specifically say small cell, do you assume it isn't small cell?

The depth of the box makes no difference for brood.
The reason deeps are used is because it is the accepted standard. Kinda like a brand of peanut butter you enjoy. There are other peanut butters but you still can make a peanut butter and jelly sandwidch with another brand.
I use mediums for brood and honey.

Michael has a wonderful quote on his page he got from someone else. Friends don't let friends lift deeps.

A fully loaded deep can weigh 90+ lbs. Having to lift those on regular basis can be back breaking work.

Sincerely,
Brendhan

Jerrymac · January 12, 2008, 05:00:41 PM

Most people stress mediums because they are lighter. And going all mediums because there are times you will want to put certain frames into certain boxes but you can't because of the difference in sizes. I use all deeps for everything. No I don't lift the heavy things one frame at a time is really light.

So basically it is go with what you want. But it is really best to have all the same boxes. What hasn't been mention I don't think is it take three mediums to make two deeps. So the draw back is you need more boxes and more frames for the same thing.

Michael Bush · January 12, 2008, 07:13:49 PM

>Do meduims work just as well for brood chambers as deeps? If the deeps aren't better for the bees, then why do most places use deeps for starter kits?

It has been the tradition in beekeeping. Feed bags back when they started that tradition weighed 100 lbs. Now they weigh 50 lbs. Beekeeping just hasn't kept up. But actually Brushy Mt has beginners kits with eight frame mediums in them. But since there is seldom anything I want in a beginners kit, I wouldn't buy one.

> I've told my dad that smaller ones are lighter, but he says not to bother because he doesn't mind lifting them for me.

Try picking up two 50 lb boxes of nails at the same time. Now set them GENTLY on the ground. That's sort of what it's like. Now try lifting them when they are stuck to two more 50 lb boxes of nails...

> If the medium ones work just as well, then we will probably get those. Also, some sites, like Mann Lake, don't mention small cell foundation. If it doesn't specifically say small cell, do you assume it isn't small cell?

If it doesn't say, you don't know, unless someone has bothered to measure it already:
http://www.bushfarms.com/beesnaturalcell.htm#cellsizes

TwT · January 12, 2008, 07:48:34 PM

Amanda, contrary to what you have heard I wouldn't start out with small cell foundation being new to beekeeping, unless you get regressed bee's they will draw out ugly comb and that's no way to start out in something new, after you get use to working your bee's and learn what is going on and know what to expect when regressing bee's then go to small cell, people can tell you all kinds of stuff and right now being new to beekeeping you can not understand just yet what they mean, my opinion is to start out normal and learn all you can then experiment with other things like small cell, 8 or 10 frame equipment and deeps or mediums, until you try it you will not know for yourself, everyone likes different things..... hope this helps

oh and a deep can weight 90 when full of honey but deeps are mainly for brood not honey, I never use a deep for a honey super (why would anyone do this), thats what mediums and shallows are for is honey ;)

Jerrymac · January 12, 2008, 08:01:10 PM

Everyone told me not to do cut outs as my first way to get bees. I didn't listen. And all went well.

The way I see it is, if you plan to do small cell, or natural cell, beekeeping that is the way you should start out in stead of doing it one way then shifting to another way later.

Michael Bush · January 12, 2008, 08:06:19 PM

They draw the PF120's just fine. I installed 40 packages on it this spring with no problems. It's 4.95mm.

http://www.mannlakeltd.com/search_results.asp?txtsearchParamTxt=PF+120&txtsearchParamType=ALL&txtsearchParamCat=ALL&txtsearchParamMan=ALL&txtsearchParamVen=ALL&txtDateAddedStart=&txtDateAddedEnd=&txtPriceStart=&txtPriceEnd=&txtFromSearch=fromSearch&iLevel=1&btnSearch.x=45&btnSearch.y=11

If you buy 180 or more you get them for less than $1 each.

Brian D. Bray · January 12, 2008, 11:11:58 PM

Mann Lake has 8 frame equipment, they just don't always advertise it in their catalogs.
Bushy Mtn, Mann Lake, and others should allow you to stimpulate all medium boxes and frames in the beginners kit. Still the kits have a lot of unnessary things in them.

Believe me, even your Dad will thiank you for going all meium after he's had to lift a few boxes full of bees and honey. Medium supers full of honey can get very heavy by the end of the day.

Sean Kelly · January 13, 2008, 07:16:59 AM

When I started last April I bought the delux kit from Mann Lake. As time went on, I ended up not using half of it. Got rid of the solid bottom board after I discovered screened bottom boards when I purchased a complete (unassembeled) double medium hive from Brushy Mountain.
Like Understudy mentioned, it's all pretty much a user preference. The bees dont seem to care if they're in a medium super, deep super, wall of a house, cardboard box, or a hollow log.
I still use deeps, but I'm still in my 20's and don't mind the heavy work.

My suggestion is to buy all wooden hives (none of that styerfoam stuff), get the complete unassembeled hives from brushy mountain (comes with a nice screened bottom board). Stay away from plastic foundation and get wired wax (bees like it better). Buy a good bee suit with zippered vale, gloves, a good smoker like the smoke cloud from Walter T. Kelly (the cheap one that came with my Mann Lake kit broke after 3 months), enterance feeder and mason jar, and hive tool. Your local Home Depot always has mix-match paint that they sell really cheap to paint your hives with, sometimes really fun colors too!!! That's all you really need to get started.

To echo everyone else, definately check out Michael Bush's website and study it!!! Great info!!! Also when you install your bees, try the method that the guy (Beemaster John) who made this website came up with by removing the screen instead of pinging them out the small feeder can hole. He has instructions and a video on the main page (www.beemaster.com).

Bee Culture magazine is awesome for beginners and not as technical as American Bee Journal can be.
ABC's and XYZ's of Bee Culture is a great reference encyclopedia, but not a good read cover to cover.
Join a club and ask lots of questions here at the Beemaster Fourms! You'll make some great friends and have a blast!!!

Sean Kelly