Hive body or Honey super?

fstmkt · March 16, 2008, 02:04:57 PM

My hive is starting its second year...The population has exploded and need to make room, Should I add a second hive body or a honey super(or both)? Will they have enough time to draw comb in both. I would hate to add a HS and at the end of the season when I take it off they have nowhere to go. Henry

bassman1977 · March 16, 2008, 07:45:17 PM

If you are not using a queen excluder, expand the hive to however large you can get them to go. The name of the box doesn't matter. The queen will lay where she wants (in my experience she has yet to go higher than 3 mediums, or what is equivalent to 2 deeps). This is a good thing IMO. Makes for more bees if she decides to go further up. More bees is potentially more honey. If you use an excluder, then sure, you can call the box a super or brood box. In any case, make sure the queen has plenty of room to lay eggs. Like I said, that can be any amount, but at least give her 3 mediums or 2 deeps, IMO. The rest can be for honey supers.

Brian D. Bray · March 17, 2008, 08:42:11 PM

Quote from: bassman1977 on March 16, 2008, 07:45:17 PM
If you are not using a queen excluder, expand the hive to however large you can get them to go. The name of the box doesn't matter. The queen will lay where she wants (in my experience she has yet to go higher than 3 mediums, or what is equivalent to 2 deeps). This is a good thing IMO. Makes for more bees if she decides to go further up. More bees is potentially more honey. If you use an excluder, then sure, you can call the box a super or brood box. In any case, make sure the queen has plenty of room to lay eggs. Like I said, that can be any amount, but at least give her 3 mediums or 2 deeps, IMO. The rest can be for honey supers.

Good points. If honey production is your goal a single brood chamber (even in deeps) is not sufficient to yield a good crop. Finsky's rule states "Good yield requires good pastures and strong hives." The better foraging area (nectar sources) the better chances of a good harvest. The more bees per hive also yeilds a better harvest. I.E. 1 hive of 60k bees will produce more haverstable honey than 4 hives of 20k bees each. This is why you'll see some beekeepers combine 2 marginal hives in order to make 1 strong hive because they know that the greater numbers per hive out produces more hives with less population.

poka-bee · March 17, 2008, 09:48:12 PM

Brian, this is one more example of questions I hadn't thought of yet that have been answered! It totally makes sense. I wish you didn't live so far away, you have so much knowledge!

Sean Kelly · March 18, 2008, 10:24:01 AM

He's not that far Jody, only a 5 hour round trip drive. Oh wait, I drive semi-truck. Yeah he does live far away for the average person.
Jody, I can't remember... did you go with mediums or 8 frame?
Brian, if you have mediums for brood, should you use 3 supers? What about 8 frame deeps?
I use 10 frame deeps, but I was just curious for Jody's sake since she went with the "weird" stuff. lol

Sean Kelly

poka-bee · March 18, 2008, 12:52:46 PM

That's cause I'm a weird person...everyone thinks so! Went with 8 meds being old & feeble! Think 3-4 of these will = a 10 deep? I ordered 12 just to make sure. Now I'm thinking I shoulda gotten 3 sets of bees as Jen said I could put some on her farm. I'm planning on going no-chems (within reason, I won't lose my hives!) So I know that at least some of my honey & wax will come from mostly non chemical sources. Will be interesting to see the difference in the locations! I'm hoping I can trade honey & eggs for my share price... ;)

Jody

Michael Bush · March 18, 2008, 10:28:35 PM

Since all my boxes are the same size and I don't use an excluder--to me, what's the difference?

Brian D. Bray · March 19, 2008, 12:19:52 AM

Quote from: Sean Kelly on March 18, 2008, 10:24:01 AM
He's not that far Jody, only a 5 hour round trip drive. Oh wait, I drive semi-truck. Yeah he does live far away for the average person.
Jody, I can't remember... did you go with mediums or 8 frame?
Brian, if you have mediums for brood, should you use 3 supers? What about 8 frame deeps?
I use 10 frame deeps, but I was just curious for Jody's sake since she went with the "weird" stuff. lol

Sean Kelly

I use 8 frame mediums throughout. My base hive is 4 mediums which equates to slightly more than 2 deep 10 frames. I use 4 because I want a big brood nest for honey production and 4 lets the queen really lay brood once she gets started. I let them have 5 if the queen wants it--more bees = more honey. I just collapse it down in the fall, one of the nice things about using all one sized box. I consider 3 mediums the minimum for overwintering an established hive. I have concluded (no scientific proof, just my own observations) that 8 frames help a hive overwinter better because the cluster is more centered in the hive and has less distance to go to the four corners to get and bring back honey to the cluster on warmer winter days. Less die off due to cold snaps and the like.

sean · March 19, 2008, 09:21:45 AM

<The queen will lay where she wants (in my experience she has yet to go higher than 3 mediums, or what is equivalent to 2 deeps). >

I use all deeps and i have had my queens going up the 4th box and laying.

bassman1977 · March 19, 2008, 09:58:13 AM

QuoteI use all deeps and i have had my queens going up the 4th box and laying.

Wow! Hardy queen.