Splits

JordanM · May 27, 2008, 05:40:33 PM

Could i do a split like this?:

Take 5 frames out of a beehive and put it in a 10 frame with 5 frames of foundation. Shake about 3lbs of bees in and let them raise a new queen, or should they have more eggs to work with?

wayseer · May 27, 2008, 08:43:47 PM

Why 5 frames? I do a split with one sometimes, more often two. I just take the bees that are already on the frames making sure there is no queen and move the nuc to a new location. Give them a couple of frames of honey to protect the brood, one of either side, and all should be fine.

Michael Bush · May 27, 2008, 08:48:57 PM

You can do a split with as little as a frame of honey and a frame of brood in a two frame box. But that doesn't mean they will take off very quickly and it doesn't mean they will always succeed.

http://www.bushfarms.com/beessplits.htm#earlysplit

JordanM · May 27, 2008, 09:10:36 PM

i dont have any nucs or small boxes so i was thinking more frames, because it takes like 4 weeks for the queen to get redy to lay from when she hatches, so i was thinking about keeping the population up a little more.

wayseer · May 28, 2008, 12:01:42 AM

Hmmm - OK. Personally I would keep the bees in the one colony - more honey. Have you tried lifting these five brood frames above the excluder and replacing with drawn comb. Make sure the queen stays in the bottom super. This way you increase the population and keep the queen laying thus increasing the overall numbers. One strong hive is better at production that two medium strength colonies.

I only split when I want to increase the number of hives and prepared for a reduction in production.

If you have a weaker hive perhaps giving them a frame or two of brood would kick it along.

It really depends on why you want to split. What's the objective?

JordanM · May 28, 2008, 05:23:19 PM

Yes, i would like to split to increase my number of hives.

Ross · May 28, 2008, 06:19:42 PM

Another method is to make a divider board to reduce your 10 frame to a 5 frame. Take a frame of honey, a frame of capped brood or two, and foundation or frames to make 5 total. Shake in some nurse bees and add the queen. The old hive with the majoirty of the assets can make a new queen instead of the weak nuc. The field bees will still make honey in the larger hive. Or do a search on cutdown split and follow the instructions for that.

wayseer · May 29, 2008, 03:11:41 AM

OK - you're increasing hive numbers.

Personally, I would not put splits in a 10 frame super - too much cold air to control for a very reduced population. I use 5 frame nucs - the outside frames being full of honey.

If you are going with a 10 fr super and putting five frames of brood I would fill the rest up with honey frames and reduce the entrance on both colonies. I would not shake the bees off the transferred frames and keep an eye on where the queen ends up - if you can. It does'nt really matter which brood box she ends up in and inspection will tell you were the eggs are appearing and where the queen cells are constructed.

Give them a week to settle down before having a peek. If all's well leave them to get on with their own business.

I recently split a very populated and aggressive 10 framer which I suspect had a superceded queen. I was not too particular where the queen went of even if she was killed. Grabbed four frames of brood with bees and put into new 10fr super. Grabbed four frames of honey from parent colony and put these in the new super. Dropped some honey frames from the honey supper around what was left in the original brood super and got outta there! Closed entrance and took new hive to a different location.

A week later and the new hive had queen cells which meant the old queen was still in the original hive. Ordered two queens and when they arrived destroyed queen cells and placed queen cage in the new hive. Then tried to locate the old queen in the original hive. Well, I had ten frames out spread around and I still could not see her. I knew she was there there as there were plenty of eggs. I finally found her on the third go-round. Killed the queen and put the whole lot back with new queen. On last inspection both colonies doing very well.

So, yes, on this ocassion I did make a split into a 10 fr super but I had a particular reason - to break up an very aggressive hive.

Hope you don't mind me going on here . On a bit of a roll.

Say I wanted to increase hive numbers. In this instance I would pick a really populated hive with a good queen. I would be looking for and least three nucs with brood left over to stay in the initial hive. I would expect at least the best part of nine frames of brood which means I would put two frames of brood in each nuc, that is, 6 frames, and leave the remainder, 3 frames with queen, in the initial hive and I would reduce the entrance. I would put a frame of drawn comb in each nuc and fill the nuc with honey frames.

Transfer the new nucs to a different location and order new queens. By the time the queens arrive they will have started queen cells in the nucs which can be then destroyed. (I don't like superceded queens). Bingo, three new hives on the way.

By focusing on one colony to create your new hives you allow the other colonies to maintain honey production.

A word of caution. Know what's up ahead as far as honey flow is concerned. This is where local knowledge is important. Know your stuff. If you do run into a dearth at the time when the new nucs are about to take off you might have to feed them to maintain strength. Don't let colonies dwindle - that's when problems and disease arise.

JordanM · May 29, 2008, 06:46:14 PM

Thanks to everyone for posting, i really understand how to make a split now. But i found a local beek that is seling me 6 frames of brood with a queen for 50 dollars(pretty much a 3 lb package with frames). So maybe next year i will try my hand at doing a split on my 2 hives.