Sick bees ?

[PeteWNY]

Hi. I hope somebody can help with this:

I have 2 brand new hives I started this year.  Each has 2 deeps with a top feeder. I purchased 2 5 frame nucs from a local orchard on June 12.  I put the 5 frames in each bottom deep and filled the feeder with syrup. Around July 12. I went to feed the bees and I saw they weren't eating any more, so I figured they got enough fresh stuff an all was good. At this point the 2 hives were about even in vigor. I let them go 2 weeks before checking again. Now 1one hive is doing great and the bees have drawn comb on 12 or 13 of the 20 frames. In the other hive they haven't  progressed at all since July 12. There's bees on all 10 frames downstairs, but nothing upstairs. There are no queen cells.

Also there seems to be a lot of droppings in the weak hive.

Any ideas ??

Thanks!

[dhood]

I havn't had that problem so I don't have a clue, but you said - "Also there seems to be a lot of droppings in the weak hive." That made me think of an article I had read about Nosmea, do a search on here and see what you come up with.
Hope this helps, Daniel

[Kathyp]

do you know that you have a queen?  how's your mite count?  any stores in the hive?  any pictures?

[NWIN Beekeeper]

Nosema isn't very likely if any reasonable flow is available.

I would try to move a few active frames up to the top deep.
Some queens don't like crossing the threshhold between frames.
You can motivate some activity on the frames by spraying them and the bees with syrup.

If nosema is an issue, the sugar spray will increase gut motility and the bees will poop a majority of the spores outside the hive. Be warned however, the bees may also put up the sugar spray as stores.  This could include Nosema spores in the honey gut. This is not significant now, but as winter progresses and as they consume stores, you may get a progressive infection that crashes the hive late in the spring.

[...there seems to be a lot of droppings... ]

This is feces and not cappings correct?
If it is capping, purhaps your weaker hive is being robbed [equalize].
If it is feces, get your bees tested for nosema.
Make sure that your entrances are clear and the proper size.

-Jeff

[PeteWNY]

Jeff ,

I don't know the difference between cappings and feces. These look like little tiny rust colored splotches. I'll look for some pictures. 
Also they don't seem to be storing honey. Almost all the comb is dark. I did move one frame to the top. I'll add another frame right next to it laster this afternoon. I'm also going to fill their feeders just in case. I'll try to get some pictures when I open the hive also.

Pete

[NWIN Beekeeper]

This addresses:

What are normal "stools" for bees?
---------------------------------
If you have fecal spots that yellow (maybe slightly orange), that is normal.

If they are rust colored, not so good.
- Low level infection that clears with fresh natural pollen and syrups.
- May appear in summer if infected and confined without an opportunity for cleansing flight.
- A warning to test and treat and to minimize hive stresses.
(treatment may not necessary mean medication, study nosema disease.)

If they are black and like liquid tar, really not good.
- A deep nosema infection.
- Workers and queen likely infected.
- Some sort of treatment and re-queening likely needed to restore good vigor.
- Disease fouled equipment needs to be cleaned or destroyed
- Diseased dead-out can be a source of cross contamination to other hives.
------------------------------

[Michael Bush]

Feces for bees is liquid.  It is not a solid piece of something laying on the bottom board.  It is a yellow to brown stain.

[PeteWNY]

It's less than rust, but more than orange.

Should I give them more syrup, or wait another 5 days or so until the really big late summer goldenrod honey flow ? Another thing I forgot to mention was that I put 1/2 of a pollen patty on top on 6/12. The strong hive completely ate their 1/2, but this weak colony only ate 1/3 of it.

Thanks again.

[Kathyp]

i think it was fatbeeman that suggested adding tree tea oil to syrup for this type of problem.  if you are not sure, it will not hurt.  i believe the dose was 20 drops per gallon and it had to be done in a blender or similar to mix well.

do a search and see what you find.  inexpensive treatment with no downside that i know of.

i used it earlier to treat chalkbrood.  i do think it helped.