Combining top hive body to lower ive body

[Shawn]

As posted in another section my new queen is doing good and laying eggs still to this day. SHe right now is in the top hive body and they only have drawn out two frames out of the 10. The lower hive body has two possibly three frames untouched, two have the brood with honey surrounding them, and the rest are full of honey. Should I take the two frames from above and place them into the bottom to reduce the space for heating over the winter. I know I would just take out the empty frames from below but where do I put the top two frames in the bottom, knowing the queen is on the top two frames?

[Bill W.]

Depends on your weather and whether or not the bees are still drawing comb.  You may not get them to draw the outer frames, but you might get them to fill in more in that upper deep.  If they are still drawing and storing, I think I'd let them continue.  If not, it might be time to consolidate.  You could move storage frames to the outside and empty frames to the inside, to try to get them to draw those out as well.

[Moonshae]

I would think you're going to have a problem overwintering your bees in one deep. You might need to consider feeding fondant or a candy board through winter, if you only end up with a full drawn deep. Be sure to remove the extra deep before winter, if it is still empty.

[bmacior]

I have a weak hive with 12 drawn out frames bewtween 2 deeps, and this is what I was told.  Was also recommended to feed 1.5:1 syrup to see if they won't draw out more before winter.

I would change the configuration of the hive into a 2 story or 6 frame nuc.  If you don't have nuc boxes just make follower boards to slip down between the frames.  Put 6 frames in each box, install follower board, then fill the remaining empty space with some type of insulation (wadded up paper?).  The 2 story configuration will maximize the utility of overwinter cluster and keep all the frames within reach for stores. 
I've overwintered splits in 2 story medium nucs and a 2 story deep nuc provides more stores.  In the spring the cluster will be small but it should have survived.  Begin Feeding early as possible next spring.

[Shawn]

Well today I looked out and saw hundreds of bees all over the outside of the hive. I walked out and observed clusters on the hive. I looked closer and saw they were fighting. I quickly got suited up and opened the hive, they were being robbed. I looked inside and there were small clusters fighting everywhere. I found a black wasp about two to three inches long also inside the hive. I looked through the top hive body and did not see the queen and all the bees appeared to be in the bottom. I took the top hive body off, put the entrance reducer on, and took out the blcok for the outer cover so all bees have to enter through the small entrance.

Ill give them a couple of days to settle back down to see if the queen is even still in the hive or it the robbers took her out.

[Shawn]

Opened the hive and found almost all the frames with honey were about empty and a lot of bee backsides were sticking out of the cells. I could not find the queen on any of the frames so Im guessing she either flew away or got killed. I did not see any fighting today just a lot of bees going and coming from the hive, guessing not my bees. Will a queen abandon a hive being robbed? Will she take the remaining bees with her?

[NWIN Beekeeper]

[I could not find the queen...]

not good.

[...Im guessing she either flew away or got killed.]

Probably. Sorry.

[Will a queen abandon a hive being robbed?]

Yes. Being robbed causes a great degree of turmoil in the hive.
Often workers are distracted by defending the hive and neglect feeding the queen.
This does cause her to abscound (leave).

[ Will she take the remaining bees with her?]
Sometimes, but its not entirely uncommon to find a queenless hive with loyal hungry workers still hanging out on the combs. Sometimes I find that a laying worker has taken over and man mutiple eggs are found everywhere. This is still an entirely hopeless situation.  I have sucessfully requeened with a nuc (which in a sense is really a combining of hives) but even this has its risks of loosing the nuc queen. 

Is this your only hive?
If so, I'd work to preserve the combs for next year.
In any case it will help to jump start a nuc or package next time around.

If not... try to use these frames in the other hives to protect them from wax moths and such.

It sounds like your hive was lacking in stores.
Next time you might want to consider feeding if your area seems particularly dry.
Even when time are not dry, if your queen continues to rear much brood, the stores can be quickly consumed. Also consider feeding if these conditions are observed.

Most of all, do not beat yourself up over this.
It is a learning experience that can help you learn to prevent this in the future.
That is what life is about. That is how beekeeping improves.

-Jeff

[NWIN Beekeeper]

Oh... and a PS for next time or those in a similar situation: 

bmacior's advice above is right on the mark.
Bees tend to chiminey up and down, and less right to left.
Especially if you are working in just a few mediums.
It makes better sense to reduce the width, then the height.
I would still put a candy board above this hive given the weak stores.

I would try to feed if the weather permits, but watch your sugar ratios.
If you feed 1:1 the extra moisture will condensate in the hive and wet freeze your bees.

This essentially is winterizing a nuc, rather than a hive.
Nucs tend to need less stores and pollen as less brood is reared.
This may depend a degree upon the race of bees that you are using.

Kudos bmacior

-Jeff

[Shawn]

Thanks for the info. Due to lack of nectar and pollen this year I have beeen feeding all summer long. The last batch I put in they did not consume so I thought they were finding source else where. Once I pulled the feeder out I noticed the robbing started to decline and less bees were coming to rob. Ill find a post on how to preserve the comb because I think that would be best.

[Shawn]

Ok Ive searched for "storing comb, storing comb over the winter" but do not find any threads. I have a shed I can put the hives into but do I need to wrap them up in garbage bags? Will the bags keep in moisture and create mold? Do I seal up the entrance and leave the hive outside hoping for the best.

[bmacior]

This situation mirrored mine.  The quote is Brain D. Bray's and kudos are his.  My bees have drawn out more comb, stores are looking good, and the bee population seems up.  Still plan on following Brian's advice.