Bee Starts (NUCS) or Bee Packages

Hillbillenigma · September 16, 2008, 12:41:28 AM

Back with another question, if you had your choice (same type of Bees, very little price difference, both would be picked up) would you choose to start your Beekeeping adventure with a couple of Nucs or would you stick with (2) Packages of Bees?

I have contacted the State Api Inspector to insure that the person selling the NUCS has a clean Health record (or Bee Record) to minimize bringing home anything extra.

PROS and CONS are welcome.

SgtMaj · September 16, 2008, 03:01:29 AM

I would go with NUCS, for the simple fact that I'd be getting some already drawn out comb, and some brood, and some bee supplies to help them get off to a good start (stored pollen, nectar/honey, etc.). Plus you're getting some frames and NUC boxes that you can use. Also, I assume you would be picking up the NUCS, whereas you'd be ordering the package bees. I've heard a couple stories on here about how UPS killed off most of the bees in the package by bagging the package in plastic.

On the other hand, you may be getting a younger queen with a package. However, there is no absolute guarantee of that unless you find out the ages of both queens.

Still, the pros for the NUCS far outweigh the cons for me, so I would definately go pick up the NUCS over ordering the package bees.

Michael Bush · September 16, 2008, 07:05:22 AM

Both work fine. For a TBH or a size other than the nuc comes in (mediums?) a package is the solution. For getting small cell, a package is an advantage as you start with a "shake down" since they have no comb. If you don't care about all the issues that might make you want them on equipment of your own choosing, then a nuc has a head start.

MustbeeNuts · September 17, 2008, 09:47:04 PM

I started this year with packages, one hive gave me 55lbs of surplus honey, the other a little slower , I left the honey for them, I thought about nucs but price was my factor. I'll probly go with packages again next year. Worked fine for me.

Hillbillenigma · September 17, 2008, 10:07:47 PM

Thanks for the replies.

The Price for the Package is going to be approx $72-$75 per, they would be delivered locally to one Keeper and I would pick them up from him. The Nucs were only $80 but I would drive about 1.5 hours to get them.

At this point I am going to go with the Nucs.

The only thing I am a little apprehensive about is that I have seen several good videos and read through the instructions on how to Install the Packages, but I have no idea how to install the Nucs. I would assume they would be easier since the Frames are already there..?

Something else, I am going to ask the Keeper is the Queens will be marked and how old they are, I really don't want to be trying to find and the mark the Queens during my first few hours with the Bees. I could see disaster written all over that situation! :-D

NWIN Beekeeper · September 18, 2008, 01:17:07 AM

One point that hasn't been addressed is: WHEN are you going to get either?

If you get a package two weeks or a month earlier, your level of establishment maybe similar.

If you get both at about the same time, I would try for the nuc.
If you maintain a good managment practice, the nuc should establish faster.
Again new folks tend to be in their hives more, these distrubances can slow progress.
Slowed progress can be futher aggerated in underdeveloped hived packages.

Another consideration is treatements.
What level of beekeeping do you plan to practice?
Do you plan to treat? If so for what, with what?
If you don't, is the supplier 'tainting' your bees before you ever have them?

Transfer to hives in either case are not difficult.
Packages require more steps and may drift in close promity of each other.
Some people struggle to balance the populations.
Videos always show a single installation, but people often buy multiples.
Keep some distance if you do multiple packages.
You can move then back slowly once they are rooted to one hive location.
Established nucs tend to maintain loyally returning populations better.

The toughest thing about nucs are that they put the beekeeping in management mode immediately.
There is less build up time on foundation so decisions like adding new frames come early in the game.
There are rewards (like the prespects of a larger first year crop) for the extra effort.
Keep in mind, even the best management can be undone by uncontrollable factors like weather.

In either choice, be not afraid to feed... slowly.

SgtMaj · September 18, 2008, 01:55:09 AM

Quote from: Hillbillenigma on September 17, 2008, 10:07:47 PM
Thanks for the replies.

The Price for the Package is going to be approx $72-$75 per, they would be delivered locally to one Keeper and I would pick them up from him. The Nucs were only $80 but I would drive about 1.5 hours to get them.

Just to clarify the economics of that so you know exactly what each costs... getting the $75 packages locally should put the total cost somewhere around $80-85 after Gas/vehicle depreciation/maintanence is included... while the $80 NUCS will cost you about $110 once you factor in Gas/vehicle depreciation/maintanence.

NWIN Beekeeper · September 18, 2008, 02:15:42 AM

[Just to clarify the economics of that so you know exactly what each costs... $80-85...about $110 ]

You forgot the difference in annual honey yeilds...
frames expenses....
pain and suffering...

come on, what's your point? :roll:

Do you want to be a beekeeper?
Is the economics of one or the other (x2) going to matter that much?
Protective equipment can vary enough in price to make up the difference.
I think purpose and intent should weigh just as heavily (or more) than price.

Now if he were trying to buy 10 packages, I can see where the intent might change, but then the drive is offset by a factor 5.

SgtMaj · September 18, 2008, 02:37:42 AM

Quote from: NWIN Beekeeper on September 18, 2008, 02:15:42 AM
come on, what's your point? :roll:

My point is that in his first post, he made it a point to say "very little price difference". I just wanted to point out that there is some price difference (about $15 per Nuc since he's getting 2). Now IF the up front price is the main sticking point for him, that may make a difference to him. We've already gone over the other pros and cons so what was left, was something he made it a point to mention in every post of his in this thread (up front price). So it seems to me, that it might be important to him to understand that there is a definate cost to driving that much farther.

NWIN Beekeeper · September 18, 2008, 02:50:32 AM

Alright, but lets consider the non-tangable possibilities.

Lets say the packages come a bee supply outlet and the nucs from a beekeeper.

There maybe tips and hints and even a degree of mentoring that could be worth the lives of the bees.
The packages could just come with a 'thanks for shopping' receipt.

Worth and value come in many different ways in beekeeping.

SgtMaj · September 18, 2008, 03:06:11 AM

Good point, and for the record, I am still in favor of the nucs. The equipment he'll get with those nucs, will more than offset the price gap.

EasternShore · September 18, 2008, 07:06:22 AM

I agree with Mike, The Nucs might be easier and give you more time to learn. The package throws you right into the mix.

My 2 main hives started as cutouts, I was scrambling around trying to get extra frames and all the other stuff I needed. Can you say no planning? Turned out great so far.

If I were to do it all over,I would have waited and gotten NUCS.
Going foundationless with a package will be my next step now because I have a ton of equipment and have had time to work with another Beek close up.

Also joining a Bee Club gives you the chance to have someone come and see your Bee's and give you pointers. My Mentor has REALLY saved me from myself. I tend to bother the girls WAY too much....

NWIN Beekeeper · September 18, 2008, 12:22:11 PM

[I agree with Mike, The Nucs might be easier and give you more time to learn. The package throws you right into the mix. ]

I think you have the two backwards.
A established nuc will have you doing more manipulations sooner.
A package you are waiting to get things drawn.

[Going foundationless with a package will be my next step...]

And that option isn't ruled out with buying a nuc.
In fact, a nuc could be better because the old frames will serve as a guide in drawing foundationless.
The key is that you want to keep everything fed so that wax production is kept up.
Else, bees may rob wax from other frames to construct combs.
In doing so, you loose a little of the cleanliness of new combs.

[Again new folks tend to be in their hives more, these distrubances can slow progress.]
[I tend to bother the girls WAY too much....]

Its almost a disease when you want to nurture something.

Hillbillenigma · September 18, 2008, 01:00:38 PM

NWIN - Those are excellent points. I do believe the Nucs will not be available until a few weeks past when the Package Bees would be availalable. I will have ALL the Frames and things I need completed this Fall so that I do not get behind (knowing the accelerated pace of getting Nucs).

SgtMaj - Thanks for thinking of the price difference. I think including the advantage of getting some Frames with the Nucs will help offset the cost difference of driving to get the Nucs.

I don't know what "foundationless" is - so I will have to research that Term. :-D

Thanks for the helpful info on all accounts.

EasternShore · September 18, 2008, 07:56:28 PM

Foundationless is a more natural way to keep bee's. The bee's draw their own comb from a small starter strip which is set in the frame. Lots of talk in here about it, try a search..Great rreading!

Hope it all works out...

NW thanks..is was way too early for me to open my Rookie mouth..hehe

Michael Bush · September 20, 2008, 10:04:20 PM

http://www.bushfarms.com/beesfoundationless.htm

sc-bee · September 20, 2008, 10:09:54 PM

>vehicle depreciation/maintanence.

Say what :roll: :-X :-D!

SgtMaj · September 20, 2008, 10:56:05 PM

Yeah... it adds up. Many years ago (what seems like a lifetime ago), I used to deliver pizza's for a short little while. Anyway, I quit after a few months because I realized I wasn't actually making any money, I was just trading vehicle equity for cash, and losing time in the process. I don't know how delivery drivers do it with today's gas prices... I did it way back before gas hit $1 a gallon.

Jim134 · September 20, 2008, 11:35:02 PM

Quote from: SgtMaj on September 20, 2008, 10:56:05 PM
Yeah... it adds up. Many years ago (what seems like a lifetime ago), I used to deliver pizza's for a short little while. Anyway, I quit after a few months because I realized I wasn't actually making any money, I was just trading vehicle equity for cash, and losing time in the process. I don't know how delivery drivers do it with today's gas prices... I did it way back before gas hit $1 a gallon.

SgtMaj What dose pizza deliver or gas got to do with bee packages or nucs ??

BEE HAPPY Jim 134 :)

SgtMaj · September 20, 2008, 11:49:34 PM

Jim, sc-bee was wondering about why I included vehicle depreciation and maintanence in figuring up the real-world cost of going to pick up the nucs from someone a few hours drive away, vs. getting the packages close to home. The pizza delivery story was just me sharing my experience with finding out just how much maintanence and vehicle depreciation hit the bottom line when driving to get things (or do things).