Syrup and water

josbees · September 26, 2008, 03:16:17 PM

So I've tried making 2:1 syrup but am having a hard time getting all the sugar melted and usually end up with a couple cups worth of sugar in the bottom of the pail. This is with a ten pound bag os sugar. I tried adding the sugar all at once. I tried half the bag at a time. I tried pouring it in slowly. Any ideas how I can get all the sugar to melt? Till I can figure this out I'll stick with 5:3.

Second question of the day -- should I keep a running water supply available for the bees through the winter, or do they manage with the honey stores alone/

Thanks!

bassman1977 · September 26, 2008, 03:32:58 PM

QuoteSo I've tried making 2:1 syrup but am having a hard time getting all the sugar melted and usually end up with a couple cups worth of sugar in the bottom of the pail. This is with a ten pound bag os sugar. I tried adding the sugar all at once. I tried half the bag at a time. I tried pouring it in slowly. Any ideas how I can get all the sugar to melt? Till I can figure this out I'll stick with 5:3

It's not dissolving because the water is saturated. When it gets to that point, I stop adding sugar and use that. Some (maybe even most) people will make it thicker and more granular, but I haven't had any issues wintering hives with it at the point of saturation.

QuoteSecond question of the day -- should I keep a running water supply available for the bees through the winter, or do they manage with the honey stores alone/

The honey stores is fine. They won't go outside for the water unless it's warm (then they will get it from other sources if they want it).

randydrivesabus · September 26, 2008, 06:09:15 PM

how much water is in the bucket that you are adding 10 lbs of sugar to?

josbees · September 27, 2008, 09:27:32 AM

I'm using five pints of water to ten pounds of sugar.

tandemrx · September 27, 2008, 09:37:47 AM

are you using hot water?

I have been boiling up about 12 pints (6 quarts) of water, dumping it into a 5 gallon bucket and then adding 24 pounds of sugar (stirring while pouring it in). It dissolves in no time and I am left with about 4 gallons of sugar syrup that I can dispense into gallon containers when needed. (looking for a better spigot than a honey gate for my syrup bucket as the honey gate doesn't control the flow very well and I have to use a funnel to put it into the gallon containers).

josbees · September 27, 2008, 02:28:37 PM

Yes -- I've been bringing the water to a boil, then taking it off the heat before adding it to the sugar. I guess it's just saturated, as already suggested.

Hubble bubble, toil and trouble........

Brian D. Bray · September 27, 2008, 07:43:59 PM

Quote from: josbees on September 27, 2008, 09:27:32 AM
I'm using five pints of water to ten pounds of sugar.

Try 8 pounds of sugar, it'll al desolve and the bees will take it better. I've found the bees will stop taking 2:1 faster than other ratios of syrup. I normally mix 5 pints hot top water to 5 lbs of sugar and it makes almost exactly 1 gallon container of syrup.

It might seem counterintuitive that the bees will quit taking the thicker syrup quicker but that's the way it is. If you still need to feed and the bees have quit taking the syrup try thinning it out 1st before giving up.

annette · September 27, 2008, 11:27:03 PM

I boil the water in two pots (I divide up the 5 pints of water between the two pots). Then when the water boils, I start to dump in 10lbs of sugar divided up between the two pots, but I keep the fire on and keep stirring until all the sugar is dissolved. Once it is all dissolved, I shut off the fire. Works everytime with no problems.

Nelly · September 28, 2008, 12:25:45 AM

I also mix my 2:1 sugar syrup while still using heat to melt any remaining sugar. It's the only way to get all the sugar to incorporate.

Nelly

buzzbee · September 28, 2008, 09:05:29 AM

You must be careful with leaving the heat on.The water temp will be able to climb above the 212 degree area once sigar is added, If it gets too hot,the sugar can caramelize and that is not good to feed bees with.

annette · September 28, 2008, 07:55:24 PM

Quote from: buzzbee on September 28, 2008, 09:05:29 AM
You must be careful with leaving the heat on.The water temp will be able to climb above the 212 degree area once sigar is added, If it gets too hot,the sugar can caramelize and that is not good to feed bees with.

I know this and just stir and stir until it comes clear and then shut off the flame. But I do have a question to ask you. If the sugar is caramelizing don't you see that??

Robo · September 28, 2008, 08:45:01 PM

It takes a lot of heat and a fairly long time to caramelize it. A lot, I mean a lot of water would need to evaporate out before you would get to 280F.

I put 25lbs of sugar in 2 quarts of water and it still takes close to 1/2 hour on the turkey fryer to get to 270F.

jojoroxx · September 29, 2008, 08:53:23 PM

I too have been feeding 2-1 by a similar method (heat h20 until ALMOST boiling add sugar, stir, and be patient)

In addition, while the sugar is dissolving, I also add about 1/4 tsp cream of tartar (to 5 lbs sugar) to raise the acidity, and reduce the risk of the syrup crystallizing in the frame later on...

comments?

Brian D. Bray · September 29, 2008, 10:05:35 PM

Quote from: jojoroxx on September 29, 2008, 08:53:23 PM
I too have been feeding 2-1 by a similar method (heat h20 until ALMOST boiling add sugar, stir, and be patient)

In addition, while the sugar is dissolving, I also add about 1/4 tsp cream of tartar (to 5 lbs sugar) to raise the acidity, and reduce the risk of the syrup crystallizing in the frame later on...

comments?

Raise the acidity by adding 1 Tbsp of cider vinegar per gallon of syrup, makes the syrup more attractive to the bees and treats for Nosema at the same time. I was recently quoted at a presentation at the local beekeeping association that I'd been feeding cider vinegar with my sugar syrup since I was instructed to do so by my mentor and haven't had a case of Nosema since 1965.

Irwin · September 30, 2008, 09:54:29 AM

Thank's Brian I will start that today :-D

tandemrx · September 30, 2008, 11:19:23 AM

1st year beekeeper here, but with a single observation (so not worth much) I second the vinegar use - although I didn't know anything about anti-nosema properties and would be interested to know if there are studies out there or mechanism of activity.

In the spring, feeding the establishing nucs, we used plain syrup and the bees didn't really drink much at all.

For the last 3 weeks we have been feeding and using the "glug" method of adding vinegar to the syrup (probably closer to 1/2 cup per gallon, but we have very basic water in our area and I even tested the resulting pH and after vinegar it is still around 7 to 6.2 at the lowest - our local water starts out at 8 or above).

Bees have been taking a gallon per hive in 2 to 3 days regularly :shock:. Eating us out of house and home and keeping me busy filling the feeders. They really needed it too as our hives were way too light to make it through a Wisconsin winter.

Anyway, not very scientific with a single observation in different seasons with different concentrations of syrup from spring to fall, but they are certainly downing the vinegar version like there is no tomorrow.

Also, we are not having problems with mold on the sugar syrup like we did in the spring (again, it could be because of different season and syrup concentration). Vinegar could be helping though.

I know that honey is supposed to have a pH of 3.5 to 6 (average around 4 or so I guess). I doubt one would ever want to bring syrup concentration down that low though as that is starting to get quite acidic and nectar is probably no where near that low (and you would have to add a lot of vinegar).

I haven't tested out our honey for pH as I don't have the equipment to test something that viscous.

jojoroxx · September 30, 2008, 08:52:42 PM

Quote from: Brian D. Bray on September 29, 2008, 10:05:35 PM

Raise the acidity by adding 1 Tbsp of cider vinegar per gallon of syrup, makes the syrup more attractive to the bees and treats for Nosema at the same time. I was recently quoted at a presentation at the local beekeeping association that I'd been feeding cider vinegar with my sugar syrup since I was instructed to do so by my mentor and haven't had a case of Nosema since 1965.

Very good information. Hadn't read that one yet...it sounds like sound advice to me. THANKS!! :-*

Michael Bush · October 01, 2008, 10:03:30 PM

http://www.bushfarms.com/beesfeeding.htm#howtomakesyrup

josbees · October 01, 2008, 11:05:18 PM

Mr. Bush, thank you as always......

chubchub · October 02, 2008, 10:56:24 AM

Hi,

I've been lurking these forums for sometime and appreciate all the great advice given. I've never posted as I don't believe I have any advice that I would feel comfortable giving. I've only had bees a few years and am still pretty green at it. But there is one thing I keep noticing that keeps poking me in the side. But before I bring it up, I first want to say in no way am I trying to be disrespectful to anyone, or trying to put anyone on the spot or single out josbees.

Time and time again I notice people asking questions, and some of the great folks on here like Brian B. Bray, Understudy, Robo, JP, Cindi, etc. take the time to make a personal response (some quite lengthy too) and there is no response from the originator. No problem, I wouldn't expect that. But then Michael Bush appends a link to his site and the originator is compelled to personally thank him. What is the deal with that? Why not go to his site in the first place instead of asking it on the forum and let all those who are spending the time giving a personal response do something better with their time?

Once again, no disrespect intended for Mr. Bush as he surely deserves the praise for all he has given, and granted he has given more than his fair share of personal responses too.