hope I'm not biting off more than I can chew

[danno]

As some of you know i'm a 1st year beekeeper and started with 5 hives.  They are very healthy so far.  I had a very eventful 1st year.  I made splits, I raised a some queens,  I had one swarm with me standing in front of it,  I hived this swarm and found and hived another, I trapped a couple of swarms with Robos tube traps, I checked for mites and treated,  I had SHB that I beat, I combined 2 week hives and I had a decent harvest.  I have been reading everything that I can get my hands on for a couple of years.  Yesterday I was given a offer to manage 200 local pollination hives.  The deal is they own the bees and pay to replace deadouts.  I provide inspections, and any treatments.  I will also provide honey supers and the harvest will be mine.  I figure I will need about 600 supers.   

[Kathyp]

wow, that's a lot of work and equipment, but it could be a great opportunity!  you don't have to move hives or anything?  just inspect, treat, and harvest?  if you have that in a solid contract, it seems like it would be a good deal!  the only down side that i see off the bat, is the equipment  cost.  if you do all comb honey at first, you can even keep equipment cost down.  that comb honey sells at a high price and folks love it!  one year of that could get you a pretty nice extractor if you wanted one.

[Keith13]

Wow what an opportunity!!!! :shock:

Where are the hives located are they close to you are they all spread out? I guess what i'm asking is what are some of your cost to visit all these hives?

Do you have to pay for the teatment for all these hives or does the owner foot the bill and you oversee the application?

Danno it sound like a lot of work but also a very nice deal for you as well.

Best of luck with what ever you decide to do

Keith

[danno]

kathyp
As far a a extractor I bought a 30 frame Maxant a couple of weeks ago for 400.00 in perfect condition.  I did alot of comb honey and crush and strain to bottle.  I have been getting 5.00 per 16 oz and it going well and 4.00 for small combs
keith13
I have to pay for all treatments.  The hives are in several locations all within 15 miles of my home and many within 5miles.
I figure I will have to spend about 5000.00 on supers, frames and foundation if I buy new but I have a retirering freind that ran 600 hive in his hey day and will selling equipment next spring.

[BeeHopper]

danno,

You have stepped it in alright  ;)

If you are confident, up to the task to do the job and still very passionate about beekeeping, then by all means do it. You do realize that you may have to change your hive management technique from 5 to 200+. I don't think it will be the same.

Best of Luck to you  :-D

BH

[Kathyp]

last i checked, 14oz comb sold for 8 to 10 dollars in the local farmers market. 

[johnnybigfish]

 Hey Danno, that sounds like some opportunity, eh?
In my opinion, For me, its alot different working for "The Man"( trying to make customers happy instead of yourself) than doing something as a hobby.
Now, if you could get something out of it, like more bees that you could have, and then bail out when more of your time goes into his projects instead of yours, ( This way you wont get tired of doing bees) It might be a pretty cool deal!
Its sounds pretty good, but if it was me, I dont think i would want to work that much or that hard at filling some one elses pockets...Keep in mind though, I dont like to mow the yard until I'm good and ready( or unless I've lost something in the deep grass!)
Good luck on whatever you decide! I'm interested on how it goes with you/ Hmmm...Maybe he'll just ask you if you wanna buy them if he cant handle them by himself, huh?

your friend,
john

[BjornBee]

On the surface, I often wonder when I hear deals such as this, "Why is it more profitable for the farmer to seek out an arrangement such as this, rather than just rent colonies every year, or manage them himself?"

I think the best situation is one that is spelled out VERY clearly, who is doing what, who benefits from what, who pays what, etc. And I would walk away very fast if there is any hesitation in getting a contract signed. It all sounds good until the farmer thinks you are the reason he lost half his hives, or expects you to make up such losses with splits (There goes YOUR honey....and MONEY). Or he kills off the population with chems at a time that it affects your crop. etc.

These type deals do not usually last long. One side feels slighted, one side feels taken advantage of, or something happens that was not expected.

Think this through. Get everything on paper. And good luck!

[JP]

Yes, you will have stepped in it, good luck!


...JP

[Jim134]

Hope you make a good profit for your time,good luck     




       BEE HAPPY Jim 134  :)




         

[pdmattox]

Working this many hives is no small task and having only the five for experience is going to give you a wake up call in my opinion. It can be done but the amount of work versus the reward don't seem to be very good.  You don't seem to mind the challenge and we only live once so I say jump on it for the experience. Next year you can renegotiate any details that you find not in your favor.

[Pond Creek Farm]

I agree with Bjorn.  Unlike him, I am not a commercial beekeeper nor have I experienced the business end of such an agreement, but I have seen many agreements head south.  At this stage in your relationship, you are both all smiles about what might be.  The trouble is that what you look forward and expect is likely different that what your business partner looks forward to for himself.  The only way to be sure that things have any chance of going well is to have a very detailed contract that discusses what will happen in the event of various eventualities and to ensure that you both have clearly communicated your expectations.  It is the uncommunicated expectations of we humans that typically lead to strife among us. Trust me on this,  while demanding a clear written contract may strain the relationship a bit, having one when the unexpected occurs may preserve the relationship and the profit. 

[rdy-b]

How did this opurtunity come to be -what happen to the keeper that keep things going? what kind of operation did that keeper have to run that much honey-and what are they going to pollinate on the farm-would he let you bring them to cali-in feb. for almonds-200 hives can turn a pretty peny :lol:-what is your day job-RDY-B

[BenC]

If I read his post correctly then I'm with Bjorn, I'm wondering if this person is keeping all the grain and expecting some chump to come along and take the chaff.  One season under your belt?  Personally I would not take on all 200 at once.  You state they are in various locations in the area, try one yard at first and if it works, grow a little more every year.  Don't do anything without an upfront inspection followed by written contracts.  Do you have a state/county inspector that could advise you on disease history or offer an opinion of this beekeeper and their practices and proposal?

[danno]

Let me try to clarify this alittle better.  This farmer is a business man the runs a fruit packer company.  He owns 1000s of acres of fruit  and a factory to package it.  The bee's are his for his own pollination only.  The former bee keeper is a freind of mine and is migratory.  He would take his 400 hives along with the fruit packers 200 hives to Florida every winter.  Last winter the fruit packer told him he didn't want his bee's going out of state any more so my freind is going to concentrate on building his own operation up to 600. The fruit packer has never taken any part of the harvest.  I have always been very  ambitious and readily except challenges.   

[BjornBee]

Danno, of course there is a story that goes along with everything. Of course, it also opens up about hundred other questions. Anything to why this previous deal was no longer good enough, to why this guy has and owns 200 hives himself anyways.

I think, whether you elaborate further with details or not, you still need to have it very clearly written out, and protect yourself.

Anyone who knows me, knows I have strong opinions of beekeepers who provide pollination to local commercial operations for nothing more than a site to keep bees. Most commercial operations are not the best places to keep bees for honey production. If it were not for a pollination fee, I would not keep bees on fruit farms. And although this is far different than that situation, the same impacting details are to be considered. And first and foremost, commercial fruit farms, such as the one you just described with thousands of acres, are usually NOT the best place for honey production. This could be due to everything from chemical use, to aggressive weed management, to mowing clover and dandelions prior to the fruit blossoms opening, to limited other plant sources in the area.

Yes, there is some trade-off due to the details of the offer. They are his hives. You have the knowledge of being a beekeeper of what to do. It can be a great learning experience. It could also be far less than what you think it may be. Your time and labor must be considered. And the yield of honey may be far less than what you expect.

A beekeeper who is no longer around, once told me "Honey crops and yields come and go. Some are good, and some are bad. But pollination fees are the same every year."

With that.....how thrilled will you be knowing that he got his pollination due to your efforts, and this coming year turns out to be poor honey year, and you get nothing?

And even if the crop is good, who will be feeding those same hives that you now know are light come fall (hypothetical being next fall), after you harvested the honey crop? Will he be buying the sugar and fall feed, after he watched the month or two previous, you roll down the road with a truck load of full honey supers? And then he suggests that it had nothing to do with the two month drought...you simply took too much honey off! Hmmmm. (Did you even consider who pays for fall feeding, which unto itself is a labor task many never allow for?)

I think that this discussion can be very useful. Not to sway you one way or the other. But good in bringing various possible problems and other concerns to your attention. Thus having you better prepared and better able to go into this with a plan and protection. So please do not take these comments as negative or less than constructive in nature. I hope they help.

[Brian D. Bray]

So the way I understand this is: The fruit packer owns the bees he uses for pollenating his crops.  He hires a beekeeper to manage his bees on a share cropper type arrangement, you do all the work, your pay is whatever harvest you get, and his reward is increases fruit set in his orchards. 
It's a workable agreement if you utilize his bees to rebuild deadouts by doing splits.  Your investment, which means no income the 1st year, is the additional equipment necessary to harvest the honey. 
I assume each of his hives are set at a standard 2 deeps, if not an agreement to what specifically he is supplying is necessary.

[BjornBee]

Brian,
Doing those splits pre fruit bloom, is alot of work, means someone is responsible for buying queens, or lessening the splits by letting the splits raise their own, and ultimately the honey producer could lose serious honey production with spring splits. (queens don't take...who's fault is that?)

Its a good scenario to think about....you come out of spring with half the hives he needs or wants for pollination....so what is going to happen? Are you going to split your strongest hives just before the flow, or are you going to feed syrup and pollen supplement in early spring to split them even earlier IF possible. And who is responsible for purchasing queens, syrup and pollen sub?

Many situations and scenarios to possible pop up. Beekeeper is responsible for all of them from a management standpoint. Cost and liability needs to be spelled out. As long as farmer gets his pollination, which is the beekeepers responsibility, he has not a worry in the world. And if the beekeeper is to split hives to make up for lost hives coming out of winter, thus lessening the cost to the farmer, and possibly impacting honey production, which is the only way the beekeeper gets paid....Hmmmm.....I'm still thinking this out.

But it's starting to look more and more as if I might be considering having a beekeeper just take over my hives to manage and maintain, and just send me the pollination fees at the end of the season. If I can get the beekeeper to replace, paint, and build equipment...this is slam dunk for me.  :-D

Managing the hives is one thing. Being responsible for every liability that comes along is another.

[rast]

 My 1 1/2 cents worth is that after April the bees will have to be moved onto something else (by fruit, I am assuming citrus) or they will be a liability until March the following year. Has he ever kept the 200 hives here (Fl.) yearround before?

[Brian D. Bray]

Queens, why buy queens.  In that scenerio I'd just do walk away splits. But it is important to get an understanding of just what is expected and who's responsible for what, in writing if possible.