Hives:Buy them or build them?

Algonam · December 25, 2008, 03:56:28 PM

Hi, I'm new to this and am trying to figure out some basics.
I'm west of Ottawa, ON (Canada) and am wondering if I should be looking for a place that sells ready built hives or should I be constructing my own. If there isn't that much of a price difference I would rather buy a couple just to get started this spring, and if I want more more hives, after I have more knowledge (maybe next winter) build my own custom hives.
If buying is an option, then, where do I buy from in the Ottawa area?
Any suggestions?

Algonam
;)

Jacmar · December 25, 2008, 04:32:55 PM

Around Ottawa here the only place to buy equipment is Benson Bee Supplies Ltd,
They are located at 8358 Victoria Street, Metcalfe, Ontario. (800) 214-7366 or (613) 821-2621. Website: bensonbee.com.

Jack

Algonam · December 25, 2008, 05:18:50 PM

Thanks Jack! It's good to hear there's some else right here in the Ottawa area.
What part of town are you in?
I hope to be setting them up near Clayton (Lanark).

Algonam

Michael Bush · December 25, 2008, 07:22:09 PM

Shipping prices vary, but usually it's just as cheap to buy hives ready to assemble instead of the lumber to build them. Of course if you have scrap lumber available, building them is by far the cheapest.

steveouk · December 25, 2008, 09:21:32 PM

get ready assembly, there not hard to put together and will save you a whole heap of money. Its also fun putting them together with your kids or grand kids

mlewis48 · December 26, 2008, 01:40:46 AM

I build most of my equipment. I have a good, cheap supply of 1x12's. The nearest supply house is 2.5 hours away and with the shipping costs being what they are, I can't afford to go that route. We do make a day trip to the Dadant branch in Frankfort 3 to 4 times a year and when we go, we try to stock up. Making equipment is time consuming but Winter is long and it is nice to pass the time doing something that I like doing. Working in the woodshop. It all comes down to how you put a value on your time. Good luck.
Marc

tlynn · December 26, 2008, 02:50:06 PM

It's the value of your time that's going to be the biggest investment. Calculate what you can earn in an hour and multiply by the hours it will take to build and paint a hive from scratch. I would think they would become rather expensive hives. Putting together pre-assembled components takes some time, even with air tools. If I didn't enjoy putting them together I probably would buy pre-assembled hives and frames.

BjornBee · December 26, 2008, 03:16:52 PM

If your NOT working and stopped bring in the cash, while you build your hives, than I could see the whole labor and time is money thing. But since many people have more time than money, is it a valid point?

If you work 40 hours a week, making 800 dollars, than how are you supposed to say it is not worth it to build your own, because you can make more money elsewhere? If it cost you twenty dollars per unit if you bought them already made, but saved 10 dollars per unit if you built your own, the savings is 10 dollars per unit. To say you "spent" 20 dollars more because you "charged" for your time, and now say that the units you built were 30 dollars, is just rationalization at best. Because you will only earn what you made in the 40 hours at work. Paper figures for your "hobby" time, weekends, and downtime, means little. By building your own, you saved 10 dollars, and this ten dollars can be spent elsewhere. That or you need to work longer hours at your actual income producing job..... :-D

My wife would be ticked, if I told her I would rather buy for twice the price, so I could not "charge" for my time, and then used the excuse I have little money left, and then sat around the house watching ball games and typing on beemaster..... :shock:

If you have a 40 hour a week job, that is what makes you money. Buying higher priced items to "save" you more money by the idea of charging yourself the hours you spent, is NOT saving you anything. Money out of your pocket is money out of your pocket, unless your saving your time, to go work longer hours at a job that ACTUALLY pays. Which for these discussions, does not, and will not happen.

Dan Williamson · December 26, 2008, 04:28:18 PM

I agree with Bjorn completely... what are you doing with the time you saved from charging yourself? Is it time you would have spent watching the football game anyway?

At some point buying assembled of certain things CAN make economic sense... like when I realized that building 1500 frames myself was saving me somewhere in the ballpark of $4.00/hr by the time I got done when I could have bought assembled in pallet loads for the difference. My time is limited with my "real" job that takes 50+ hrs/ week... so for me the $128 I saved by building my own frames was time I'd rather spend with my kids who don't see me enough as it is during the busy bee season. Winter is when they have the opportunity to see me the most... and yes... they love to help me with the frames for the first few hundred... and then the 5yo and 7yo have had enough.

There are other times when it can make sense to buy equipment that increases your efficiency allowing for more time doing other important bee related work.

If you are only looking at bees as a hobby and money is no object than knock yourself out.... it won't be much out of pocket at the end of the day for a few hives. The more hives you have the bigger the issue becomes. If you are looking to make money at beekeeping then you must analyze everything you are doing and see if it makes sense at the end of the day.

There is a big difference (or should be)in the mindset between someone looking at it from a business perspective and someone just wanting a few hives in the backyard for fun!

MustbeeNuts · December 26, 2008, 04:42:38 PM

well some of the above responses are pretty involved, all i can say is that for me to purchase wood, its 8.80 per 8 ft 1x8, and to purchase ready made are around 9.50. im close enought to drive the 3 hours to dadants. So I do. to me the cost varied against the time and work, let someone else build them, I don't have alot of building room anyway so I have to wait for nice weather. But for me to make my own, saves maybe a buck a unit. For a buck, LOL someone else can do it.

BjornBee · December 26, 2008, 05:05:51 PM

Quote from: MustbeeNuts on December 26, 2008, 04:42:38 PM
well some of the above responses are pretty involved, all i can say is that for me to purchase wood, its 8.80 per 8 ft 1x8, and to purchase ready made are around 9.50. im close enought to drive the 3 hours to dadants. So I do. to me the cost varied against the time and work, let someone else build them, I don't have alot of building room anyway so I have to wait for nice weather. But for me to make my own, saves maybe a buck a unit. For a buck, LOL someone else can do it.

So you driving to Dadants for a single box?

If I'm driving to Dadants, I'm driving to get a load of boxes.

And so, equating the price to a single board purchased at the 1x8 regular retail price, can also be a bit misleading. I can buy a 1x12 and save even more. And if I buy a truckload, I can save even more.

But I'm just nitpicking..... :-D

You got the right idea, at least looking at the bottom line. The bottom line is there is x-amount of money in one's pocket. It costs one amount for one way, and it costs another amount to do the other. And so as Dan suggested, value of time does come into play. Not by how much you "spend" building something, but by the "value difference" of what you would rather do with that time. For a 1 dollar difference in each box, I would choose as Dan said, more time with my kids. If that difference was 4 dollars, and I had 100 to make, and I could build them at my convenience over the next month to save 400 dollars, I may do them myself. Time is not a factor in such an equation.

Obviously that 400 dollars could make a huge difference for some folks. And expanding and paying out of pocket as one expands one's business is almost always a smart way to go. I built my business and payed for all of it. I owe nothing. But I saved every dollar I could and probably saved little on some items I made. But cash was tight, and I am glad I took that approach. No loans, no credit card bills, and many things made by me, saving every penny I could. And I bet there are many "frugal" business owners out there that saved "pennies" in some very unique areas, as they built their business.

Now if I was only ever going to build two hives, I may go about that a bit different..... :-D

MustbeeNuts · December 26, 2008, 05:25:10 PM

LOL no I don't drive for one box, i drive for 10-50 but then i add the frames, some foundation, the hole shooting match. but still the end result is for the extra buck, why build, you get pre cut, boxed. and nails, just hammer them up, and my wife just loves to help me make and paint them. LOL Too me making them would be part of the fun, but then I have never had a carpenter bone in my body. I can't even make a bird feeder. You know the old saying, I cut it twice an its still too short? Doh! Oh ya lets not forget the shipping costs if you don't live close. easily add another 100 dollar bill on top. But with gas down low ,, drive like the wind. :)

For me the kids are grown, far away. Its just me and the wife, we do share the hobby, but with no where to make them inside, its easier and almost the same cost to buy. Thats my bottom line. Wife would never put up with sawdust in the livingroom. :)

1of6 · December 26, 2008, 05:49:46 PM

Or you can look at it as time spent doing something that you enjoyed with someone you enjoy spending time with. Here are my children with some boxes they helped to build. I enjoyed it. You couldn't have paid me enough not to do this together with them.

Yes, I think they're proud of the supers they helped build. I surely am. If you don't feel that you enjoy it enough, just don't do it.

For those of you who look to see if something is lucrative enough for you to want to do it, I hope you can find the enjoyment in some other hobby that my children and I have found in beekeeping. We raise our own queens, and except for our frames, QEs, foundation, and metal frame rests, the rest of our hives are home-made. We love the time that we spend together doing this.

Brian D. Bray · December 26, 2008, 05:53:17 PM

Quote from: MustbeeNuts on December 26, 2008, 05:25:10 PM
LOL no I don't drive for one box, i drive for 10-50 but then i add the frames, some foundation, the hole shooting match. but still the end result is for the extra buck, why build, you get pre cut, boxed. and nails, just hammer them up, and my wife just loves to help me make and paint them. LOL Too me making them would be part of the fun, but then I have never had a carpenter bone in my body. I can't even make a bird feeder. You know the old saying, I cut it twice an its still too short? Doh! Oh ya lets not forget the shipping costs if you don't live close. easily add another 100 dollar bill on top. But with gas down low ,, drive like the wind. :)

For me the kids are grown, far away. Its just me and the wife, we do share the hobby, but with no where to make them inside, its easier and almost the same cost to buy. Thats my bottom line. Wife would never put up with sawdust in the livingroom. :)

That's one of the reasons some beekeepers end up going to 8 frame equipment, because the third time (cut) was the charm.
I have a pile of wood scraps I've saved from other projects and dumpster-diving that I will be using to build more boxes. I collect the scaps, anything 1 by 14-30 inches by 8 or more inches and then 2X's can be butt cut 3/8 wide to make end bars, or lengthwise into 1X2 (roughly) to make top bars. The scraps from cutting down the wider 1 by's makes makes the bottom bars. In otherwords, you don't have to spend a dime for the lumber, and since a hobbiest shouldn't compute time, the cost of manufacturing your own equipment can be quite low, provided a person has a few good hand tools. Saw wise, tablesaws, radialarm saws, dado blades, or routers are nice but not necessary. I can make butt cut supers and frames using a skillsaw and a square. A little more challenging and time consuming but less expensive.

manfre · December 26, 2008, 09:00:21 PM

If the price difference between assembled and non factors to less than about $20/hour, then I lean heavily toward paying for assembly. I can recoup the extra money significantly faster than assembly would take. If I didn't do consulting work on the side, then I would definitely penny pinch. Besides, paying a little bit more to have a few extra hours to unwind, surf the web and do one of the other 50 things on my ever increasing to-do list is worth it.

tlynn · December 26, 2008, 10:24:45 PM

Hmm...well I suppose it's a matter of what kind of value you put on your time :-). What I am saying is the DIY route isn't necessarily the best, because we never get back our time. You can always do something cheaper yourself, but that doesn't necessarily mean you should do it.

Time spent with the kids like 1of6 (oh my goodness what adorable kids you have) building supers is probably in the realm of priceless. I put my hives together because I find it therapeutic for one thing, and I like woodworking and painting. I know when I look up and it's 3 hrs later and only seems like a half hour I have been in the moment, and that's as good for me as meditation. If it was just a tedious task I had to do to be a beekeeper I would pay for it to be done for me. Then I could spend the day watching football!

dpence · December 27, 2008, 10:00:50 PM

I would suppose it would depend on your location and resources. Myself I have a fairly nice wood shop and a source for lumber as well. I do buy my frames though, unassembled. I kinda enjoy getting out in the shop and making sawdust. I am a scavenger too, lots of house construction/remodeling projects have usable lumber just for the asking, it usually ends up in the dumpster anyway. We had a discussion about this not long ago. Certainly a person's time is worth something :-D. In my case my time to get out of the house is well used....

David