What is up with these 2 hives?? And can I combine them??

annette · May 23, 2009, 11:32:09 PM

I need advice please.

Here are the facts:

On May 6 one hive had 2 supers full of queen cells (all over the frames top, middle and bottom)

Mostly drone brood with little worker here and there.

Today when I went inside this hive, all queen cells are gone and not even a trace of where they have been. No brood at all of any kind, not drone brood, not worker brood, no evidence of a queen. a good population so I do not believe they swarmed at all. They may have had a drone laying queen. Anyway, wouldn't I see some evidence of a queen by this time??? I do not want this hive to become a laying worker hive so I feel I need to move fast. I actually ordered a mated queen today to be installed on Tuesday. But I do not want to make the mistake I made last year and introduce a queen only to have her killed.

Also, I have that little swarm hive that apparently did not have a queen and I gave them a nice fat queen cell on May 7 and this hive also shows no evidence of having a queen as of today's inspection.

My question is, can I combine these two hives because the swarm hive really is going down in population.
My next question is are these hives queenless??? Perhaps I am not understanding the math and there may be queens not laying yet??

Please let me know soon,

Thanks
Annette

Yikes I just read Michael Bush's web site and it looks like it could take as long as 28 days before I see any evidence of the queens laying. I have jumped the gun here with all of this.

But I would still like to know if I can combine these two hives right now????? Would it disrupt the cycle of the queen if I moved one hive now???

sc-bee · May 23, 2009, 11:55:34 PM

May 23 to May 7 ----- 16 days
capped 8-9 days= 25 days if moved day capped
if moved on say day 14 = 30 days

Two weeks @ least to mate and start laying --- not counting the days she had left to emerge after you moved the cell. Alot of folks I talk to use the 28 day figure from start to finish.

Probably to soon to see anything yet.

No idea on all the queen cells being torn down. Usually a sign of a new queen. I have very little experience with a laying worker.

annette · May 24, 2009, 12:11:06 AM

Wow

I guess I better cancel that new queen order from the store. They must not have been laying yet.

What do you think about me combining these 2 hives. Can I still combine them if they have queens that aren't laying yet??

DennisD · May 24, 2009, 12:30:59 AM

I am glad you posted this, in some ways, it relates. I had built up two new hive boxes with brood that were queenless, in one of my other hives, I found frames with 3 queen cells closed total. So, I transferred two frames each with a closed queen cell to each queenless hive this afternoon. Now comes the wait. Both boxes still have brood, strong populations, lots of pollen and a goodly amount of honey, some capped, some open. Thus the wait for the new queens to emerge, take off, mate and hopefully come back and begin laying eggs.

sc-bee · May 24, 2009, 01:00:57 AM

Larry Connor list raising a queen from a cell as the least efficient way to do an increase:

Add 21 more days until workers emerge.

Off course it is fun to watch and learn ;)!

sc-bee · May 24, 2009, 01:04:34 AM

>Yikes I just read Michael Bush's web site and it looks like it could take as long as 28 days before I see any evidence of the queens laying. I have jumped the gun here with all of this.

But I would still like to know if I can combine these two hives right now?Huh? Would it disrupt the cycle of the queen if I moved one hive now???

I see you modified your post.

As far as combing --- I believe the virgin queens are the ones that do the killing and you may have one in each box. As far mated queens isn't it the bees who tear at them and do them in???

JP · May 24, 2009, 01:18:18 AM

I would say, according to your calculations you should definitely have hatched queens and most likely, mated queens that should be laying this week if not already.

What about Ray? Any chance of him coming down and having a looksy?

Go ahead and combine the swarm with the other one.

...JP

sc-bee · May 24, 2009, 01:24:03 AM

>Go ahead and combine the swarm with the other one.

JP is the swarm man not I ;)!!!

>I would say, according to your calculations you should definitely have hatched queens and most likely, mated queens that should be laying this week if not already.

I agree--- this week coming up. I would give them that benefit of the doubt. Especially if the weather has been like ours (rain)--- mating flight may have been delayed. What's another few days??? Maybe keep a queen (the new one you plan to buy).

Would looking for cleaning and polishing cells help?

I have often heard my mentor say " Looks like they have a queen they are cleaning cells." Only to see a queenless hive that they were cleaning cells in. Maybe I did not understand what he meant or the explanation lacked the last part, that I believe id shared in a recent post. And I paraphrase, they will clean cells in a queenless hive but not polish them in a queenless hive. Thanks for the insight id ;)!!!

contactme_11 · May 24, 2009, 09:36:43 AM

Quote from: JP on May 24, 2009, 01:18:18 AM
What about Ray? Any chance of him coming down and having a looksy?

I was thinking the same thing. Maybe time for some more pie?

annette · May 24, 2009, 02:05:12 PM

I tried to lure Ray up with the promise of some more pie, but he turned me down cold. What's a women to do???

Seriously though, I called him the night before I wanted him, and he had plans on going up to his property in Marysville. He has been extremely busy moving onto some new property and I know this has consummed his whole life right now. He asked me to call him this week, which I will do and we will arrange something.

Thanks for all the advice dear people

I will combine the hives this evening.

I think I will start a new post on combining hives.

Annette

JP · May 24, 2009, 02:31:43 PM

Maybe you could lure Ray faster with a nice steak and 2 pies with extra whipped cream? :-D

BTW, I'm in ventrillo Annette.

...JP

RayMarler · May 24, 2009, 02:48:36 PM

Hi Annette,
Give me a call if you're still sitting here!

annette · May 24, 2009, 03:20:23 PM

OK I just spoke with Ray and he is coming up to help me next Sunday. Meanwhile I will not do anything with the hives until he looks at them. No combining or anything.

He actually was ready to come on up today, but I felt that since I already checked on them yesterday and do not see any evidence of a laying queen, perhaps it would be best to wait another week and then there really should be some eggs by next week if I have queens.

Thanks for all the help I received here which I truly appreciate.

Annette

annette · May 24, 2009, 03:23:52 PM

Quote from: JP on May 24, 2009, 02:31:43 PM
Maybe you could lure Ray faster with a nice steak and 2 pies with extra whipped cream? :-D

BTW, I'm in ventrillo Annette.

...JP

When Ray makes up his mind, then even a steak would not help. (Just kidding Ray Hee! Hee!)
What are you doing on the forum today JP. This is your special weekend with the misses, so congratulations on another year with the women you adore.

JP · May 24, 2009, 03:31:52 PM

Sounds good Annette. Glad Ray can give you the hands on treatment.

...JP