Going to Re-Queen - MEAN BEES !!!!

sarafina · July 15, 2009, 12:43:40 AM

I decided after Sunday to re-queen my blue hive I started from an Italian package this Spring from R Weavers in Navasota. I ended up at the doctor yesterday for a Benedryl and steroid shot because I looked like I had been in a prize fight. I made several rookie errors yesterday but my bees are still too hot.

They have come after me several times before and won't leave me alone even when I move way on the other side of my yard (several hundred feet). Last Sunday I went into my yellow hive all the way down to the bottom brood box just poking around and they buzzed me like crazy, but never tried to sting me. I pulled 3 frames of honey out and replaced with empty frames because this hive was getting honey-bound. I put those frames in an empty brood box I had on a wheelbarrow and covered them up. I did a powder sugar dusting for mite control and closed it back up.

I went into the blue hive and as soon as I lifted the top off I was stung twice on my hands through my gloves, even though I had smoked the hive AND myself. I saw brood in my honey super so they may be out of room in my 2 brood boxes below. If they have AHB gene this is possible even though I started them from a package on empty frames. I decided I didn't want to be stung anymore and put the lid back on.

I wheeled my 3 frames of honey next to the back of my garage and decided to retrieve the frames later as I was about to pass out from the heat in my suit (first mistake). Around 7:30 pm I decided to get my frames, figuring the girls would be on their way to bed soon. I put on my jacket and gloves with just my jeans (second mistake) and went out and found a lot of bees still on the honey frames. I grabbed the first one up and took it in front of the yellow hive and brushed to bees off and took the frame into the garage. Did the same with the second frame - no problemo.

I did the same to the third and last frame and they went crazy and came after me and I was getting stung all over my legs through my jeans. I normally put on a pair of baggy disposable coveralls under my jacket/veil combo. I left the area immediately, getting as far away from my hives as I could get and they were still stinging me. Then I heard the buzzing and realized they had made it under my jacket and were in my veil. I got stung above my eyebrow, my ear and several times on my scalp at my hairline. By the next morning I looked liked an alien with my forehead swelling and my eyes swollen badly. I have no idea how many stings I had on my legs - I don't have usually have a bad reaction after the initial sting - they just itch for a few days. I had enough to make me nauseous.

I decided I didn't want any more queens locally that might have AHB genes, so I talked to Walter Kelley and have an Italian queen being shipped in 2 weeks. I figure I better get healed up completely before I have to dig in that hot hive again to find the queen.

Oh - and tomorrow I am biting the bullet and ordering an UltraBreeze full suit so I will have it before I have to venture into the hot hive again!!! I just hope I can find the queen w/o too much trouble or many stings through my gloves. She is marked so that will help.

Any advice for a noob on finding the queen to re-queen? I never look for the queen when I do inspections - just eggs and larvae - although sometimes I find her when I happen to pull out a frame with her on it.

Oh - and any other advice on what I did wrong would be greatly appreciated as I do not want a repeat performance of last Sunday.
:shock:

bee-nuts · July 15, 2009, 04:52:11 AM

Sorry to hear about your misshap, really!! Sounds like you got it bad. I have to say I am really glad I don't live in an ahb area.

The people I got my bees from said that if they find a hot hive, they mark it, and come back in three days, and if it is still hot they will exterminate it. If you have a hot hive that is always hot, I would fumigate the dirty little suckers or something if you suspect ahb. If a hive supersedes or swarms you will have a virgin queen that likely will mate with the ahb drones from that hive.

Now, I am no pro beekeeper, but I have had a couples years experience taking honey from bees in fall that could get a little huffy. Once they know your stealing the honey it really seams to make them mad. If you take it away from the hive and you have followers or a couple in the box that get out they will go get more girls and have a very unpleasant attitude. I had a bee that waited out side for me for a couple hours. And believe it or not, just me. It barely got me on the nose but did not lose its stinger. When I was in the sun room it would buzz around whatever window I was by and would follow me from one window to the next, yet would leave others alone when they went outside, but not me.

I think going by the hive to brush of the bees was a big, big mistake. These bees were already mad and when you brushed them off in front of the hive, you just put all the bees on notice saying here I am with you honey, come get me. Especially in front of the hive. I always try to stay in back of the hives always. I get very little aggression when I'm in back. When I change the battery on my fencer I'm in front of my hives about 15 or twenty feet and sometimes I get an angry bee or two trying to drive me away.

I don't Know what to tell you about making it easier other than killing them and starting the hive over. You can easily isolate the queen to one box by putting in excluder. No eggs or larva mean queen is in another box (the box with eggs and larva obviously). I guess that said you could easily figure out what box she is in that way and then move the box away letting the field bees back in there original hive then destroy the bad box. What was left of hive would be queerness. This only works if the queen is your original mated queen you got with a package and does not know where her hive is.

Im a rookie myself so Im sure there is a better way.

RayMarler · July 15, 2009, 05:09:21 AM

Take one frame of eggs and young larva and one frame of sealed brood and one frame full of nectar and put into a hive box filling out the remainder of the box with empty frames. Place this box in the spot where your mean hive is and move the mean hive to the other side of the yard or somewhere away, 100 feet or more if possible. All the field bees from the hot hive will raise you a queen from your good hive's eggs. The hot hive you moved away will be much less populous now and the field bees are mostly gone back to the original position. This should make it much easier to go thru and find the queen and pinch her head off.

kdm · July 15, 2009, 05:16:35 AM

Mike Bush site has some good advice on re - queening agressive bees.

sarafina · July 15, 2009, 10:30:49 AM

Quote from: bee-nuts on July 15, 2009, 04:52:11 AM
Sorry to hear about your misshap, really!! Sounds like you got it bad. I have to say I am really glad I don't live in an ahb area.

The people I got my bees from said that if they find a hot hive, they mark it, and come back in three days, and if it is still hot they will exterminate it. If you have a hot hive that is always hot, I would fumigate the dirty little suckers or something if you suspect ahb. If a hive supersedes or swarms you will have a virgin queen that likely will mate with the ahb drones from that hive.

Now, I am no pro beekeeper, but I have had a couples years experience taking honey from bees in fall that could get a little huffy. Once they know your stealing the honey it really seams to make them mad. If you take it away from the hive and you have followers or a couple in the box that get out they will go get more girls and have a very unpleasant attitude. I had a bee that waited out side for me for a couple hours. And believe it or not, just me. It barely got me on the nose but did not lose its stinger. When I was in the sun room it would buzz around whatever window I was by and would follow me from one window to the next, yet would leave others alone when they went outside, but not me.

I think going by the hive to brush of the bees was a big, big mistake. These bees were already mad and when you brushed them off in front of the hive, you just put all the bees on notice saying here I am with you honey, come get me. Especially in front of the hive. I always try to stay in back of the hives always. I get very little aggression when I'm in back. When I change the battery on my fencer I'm in front of my hives about 15 or twenty feet and sometimes I get an angry bee or two trying to drive me away.

I don't Know what to tell you about making it easier other than killing them and starting the hive over. You can easily isolate the queen to one box by putting in excluder. No eggs or larva mean queen is in another box (the box with eggs and larva obviously). I guess that said you could easily figure out what box she is in that way and then move the box away letting the field bees back in there original hive then destroy the bad box. What was left of hive would be queerness. This only works if the queen is your original mated queen you got with a package and does not know where her hive is.

Im a rookie myself so Im sure there is a better way.

Yeah, I didn't realize that shaking them off would make them so mad - part of my learning experience. For me, it was the last straw as it is not an isolated incident with this hive and it just made my decision easier.

iddee · July 15, 2009, 11:09:40 AM

I would requeen. It is not the first post I have read concerning the meanness of bees gotten from weaver. Of course, there are two weaver bee businesses, and I don't know which the posts were about.
Never the less, I would get a queen from outside the AHB areas.

CVBees · July 15, 2009, 11:50:28 AM

I wish I could comment on how to help it looks like some good advice so far. I wanted to say that I have been stung by germans and carny's alike with no ill effects (minus the immediate pain which lasts a few minutes.) But Italians are some sort of nasty when it comes to stings. I have been hit a dozen times in a day and just 2 italian bites cause my left hand to swell, tingle, and be numb for a few hours. I will never have italian bees regardless of their sustainability. I applaud you for trying to deal with them.

sarafina · July 16, 2009, 12:27:51 AM

Quote from: iddee on July 15, 2009, 11:09:40 AM
I would requeen. It is not the first post I have read concerning the meanness of bees gotten from weaver. Of course, there are two weaver bee businesses, and I don't know which the posts were about.
Never the less, I would get a queen from outside the AHB areas.

I remember reading about the Weavers last year after I ordered my package and queen and it was my first first hive - ever - so I was a little concerned. I got lucky with that queen and those bees are pretty gentle - about the only time I got stung was once through my jeans and I was fumbling with a camera and being clumsy. They didn't even come after me for robbing all their honey last weekend off the super and I did it frame at a time.

bee-nuts · July 16, 2009, 03:40:42 AM

"I guess that said you could easily figure out what box she is in that way and then move the box away letting the field bees back in there original hive then destroy the bad box. What was left of hive would be queerness. This only works if the queen is your original mated queen you got with a package and does not know where her hive is."

Correction! I actually guess the queen should not fly back anyway unless you shook the bees on the ground from her box.

I also want to mention that I dont think it matters who you buy your bees from if they are in an ahb area or get there bees from an ahb area if the queens in either case are allowed to mate openly in an ahb area. I have heard of hot hives way up here in Wisconsin that were vicious as all hell (got queens or bees from ahb area of course). Off course queen suppliers (in ahb areas) can use measures to reduce the chances of ahb in there stock but all are at risk.

You can re-queen, but remember, you still have drones with the nasty genes around (although maybe its not the queen but what she mated with so in that case the drones would be harmless i guess) to mate a new queen in any of your hives. It would be very easy for you not to notice a hive supersede or swarm if you dont pay real close attention. I would get ride of em completely. Not only that but the dirty little suckers are mating other queens in ther area as well. They could even come back to haunt you next year if you get my drift. A lot of if's but thats my opinion. I dont think a commercial beekeeper would take any chances either.