Supersedure cells/don't understand

Bee Whisper82 · July 15, 2009, 03:49:12 AM

Newbie here.....on Monday the 13th I had a swarm come from one of my hives. I had checked this hive like a week in a half before and found queen cells on the top half of the frames on the side. Were these swarm cells or supersedure cells? If I had gotten the swarm in a hive would they have survived?

Mr.X · July 15, 2009, 08:47:35 AM

looks like you should have asked this question a week and a half BEFORE they swarmed huh? Apparantly the swarm is gone now so what makes the difference?

lakeman · July 15, 2009, 09:26:46 AM

Quote from: Mr.X on July 15, 2009, 08:47:35 AM
looks like you should have asked this question a week and a half BEFORE they swarmed huh? Apparantly the swarm is gone now so what makes the difference?

This is a good example of my recent post on another topic

>Ah how right you are. forums are very usefull, for years I have been active in many different forums on the internet, as I usually participate in forums of many of the different interest that I have. Also anytime I become interested in any topic or item, or have a question about anything, I google for a forum on the topic. Some I become quite active in, and some I just bookmark for future (I must have at least a hundred forums bookmarked) use, when and if a question on the topic arises.
The one thing that dissapoints me the most about forums, is that too many members do not speakout. When I ask a question, I want a lot of different answers, to get different ideas, and slants on the subject matter. Some of the most outspoken (not many but a few) persons on a forum sometimes are incorrect, and not the expert opinion you are looking for. you want many answers, so you can get the different ideas and slants, and make your choice as to what you want to believe. Unless you are an expert yourself, you do not know which answer is correct and which is not, and if you already knew, you would not be asking the question. And then there are the notoious individuals that want to make a smart a$$ answer, or change the subject. <

The person has a question, and the purpose of the forum is to answer those questions, Mr.x also being a newbee (or maybe just to the forum), if just getting into beekeeping like myself, should be interested in the experts answers to all questions asked (which may sound stupid to an experienced beekeeper, but not to the person asking the question, and other newbees) that is how you learn, and the reason I and many others are here.
What I would like to see here, is a complete description, (possibly with pictures) of the difference of all different cells we may see in our hives. This is why when I seen the subject of this posting, I was interested enough to click on it, to learn, not to give a negative opinion.

MacfromNS · July 15, 2009, 09:32:17 AM

Quote from: Mr.X on July 15, 2009, 08:47:35 AM
Apparantly the swarm is gone now so what makes the difference?

The difference is that maybe Bee Whisper82 can learn from this, sorry your having a bad day.

iddee · July 15, 2009, 09:54:05 AM

I'm thinking that Bee Whisper82 is much more correct making a post 3 weeks late than Mr. X is when making a post that gives no info, has no logical use, and seems to be for no good reason that I can see.

Bee Whisper82, If there is a bad spot on a comb that dips in half way up the frame and the cell is hanging down from it, the bees consider it the bottom of the comb. They do not use the frame for judging the top and bottom, only the comb in that particular spot.

Also, the bottom swarm cell and upper supercedure cell is only a guideline, not definite fact. The bees never read the rule book, so don't always abide by our rules.

If you had gotten the swarm in a box and fed, they would have had a chance of survival. There are no guarantees.

charles · July 15, 2009, 09:57:40 AM

Quote from: Bee Whisper82 on July 15, 2009, 03:49:12 AM
Newbie here.....on Monday the 13th I had a swarm come from one of my hives. I had checked this hive like a week in a half before and found queen cells on the top half of the frames on the side. Were these swarm cells or supersedure cells? If I had gotten the swarm in a hive would they have survived?

I would have thought supercedure cells, same as you. And I would have just left them alone and let them self-requeen, same as you. Sometimes bees do confusing things.

I'm assuming the old hive is still present and building up? Give them a couple or three weeks and check them again to see if the new queen is laying.

Oh, and congratulations! Apparently your hive was/is strong and healthy, has reproduced itself, and now there are two hives in the area helping the world. Who knows? You might someday catch a swarm off the hive established from the swarm you lost. Or maybe you'll get a call from a nervous neighbor wanting to pay for a hive removal.

Natalie · July 15, 2009, 01:25:32 PM

MR X has made only two posts and both of them were unhelpful and/or rude, he is also hopelessly lost so what does he know :)

Anyway, I understand exactly why you would want to know the difference, so you can learn from it and use that info for next time.
Its a bummer that they swarmed but its all part of the learning curve.
I am glad that you asked this question as its never too late to learn from our experiences and the info iddee gave in response to your question is useful for me.

Kathyp · July 15, 2009, 02:01:40 PM

lakeman, i think someone has posted pics of queen cells, drone, worker, honey, etc. probably more than one person, but i remember on fairly recently. if you do a search, you'll probably find them.

if there is something specific you are looking for, feel free to ask. at the moment, it seems i have a bit of everything in my hives and i'd be glad to fetch a picture for you, and i am sure others would also.

Bee Whisper82 · July 15, 2009, 03:26:14 PM

I am so glad I have people on here that really wants new beekeepers to learn. If it weren't for ya'll we wouldn't learn anything. Thanks ya'll for sticking up for me there.

On the cells I had thought that they were re queening themselves.

QuoteThe bees never read the rule book, so don't always abide by our rules.

If they had I don't think they would anyway ;)

If I had some pictures that would be great.

Kathyp · July 15, 2009, 03:31:09 PM

QuoteI am so glad I have people on here that really wants new beekeepers to learn

no matter how long you keep bees, there will be things to learn. hopefully, there will always be people to teach! unfortunately, there will always be people who have nothing to add, but insist on being snarky and unhelpful. they are best ignored.

asprince · July 15, 2009, 04:00:20 PM

Quote from: Mr.X on July 15, 2009, 03:23:15 PM
Oh my! I didnt realise that i need to post 400 rediculous questions and 400 other rediculous comments where i say absolutely nothing except how great the "girls" are doing or other silly such stuff that you regulars on here do. Maybe if i had a cutsie bee themed name, or maybe if i took the time to fill out my profile and load a spiffy little pic. Or maybe if i had the time to document my every move in the bee yard in a blog or had a website where i could showcase my bee knowledge and experience i could become a self proclaimed expert like the rest of you bozos. Hows this for newbies: Try researching the question before asking? Take any advise from this forum (obviously including Mr.X) with a grain of salt. :deadhorse:

Three posts (as Mr. X) and all sarcastic. Has someone licked the red off of your candy?

Steve

iddee · July 15, 2009, 04:26:36 PM

OK, Mr. X. I'll be nice to you and just ask. What is your purpose here, and why do you stay around? What kind of posts do you think are needed to help others take better care of their bees?

Maybe we can all understand you better if you will relate to us what is needed.

I mean, I am just a newbie myself and am still learning. I have only kept bees since about 1977, so I still have a long ways to go.

Natalie · July 15, 2009, 05:38:38 PM

Beewhisper82 I have found that pictures were the biggest help to me of all when trying to learn the difference between the different cells.
I used the search button alot to find pictures after I found a cell in one of my hives. I actually think it was one of the hardest things to figure out in beekeeping for me.
That is what is great about this forum, there is so much information on here and people are really great about sharing their pictures.
If you type in supercedure or swarm cells in the search feature you will find some useful pictures.

Jim134 · July 16, 2009, 07:23:17 AM

Quote from: iddee on July 15, 2009, 04:26:36 PM
I mean, I am just a newbie myself and am still learning. I have only kept bees since about 1977, so I still have a long ways to go.

I have only kept bees since 1957 I still have a long ways to go I hope LOL. :roll:

BEE HAPPY Jim 134 :)

beemaster · July 16, 2009, 01:33:50 PM

Mr X has been banned - he asked for it from his first post and it went down hill from there. Just thought I'd let you know :)

Some people come in looking for trouble, he obviously was one of them - I imagine an outcasted member who got their hands on a different computer and wanted to zing us a few more times, that is usually how it goes.

luvin honey · July 16, 2009, 01:50:39 PM

Thank you :)

I would like to add that it's not very helpful to be told to "go read a book" or "talk to your local bee club," unless you have a specific book that would really be helpful. Some of us are online because that's the way we learn best, we don't have a book on hand, we can't find the answers to our question in said book and/or we don't have a convenient or available bee club.

I would like to make one more point. I certainly have a LOT to learn as a new beek. It is not helpful for folks to answer questions with variations of "That's just the way it has always been done" and showing obvious annoyance to newbie "dumb" beeks who dare to question the status quo.

I hope my questions are always respectfully worded, because I do have tremendous respect for all the knowledge and experience on this forum, but please try to show the same respect for those of us who are new. Probably you didn't have all the answers when you started, either.

As for the OP, I hope you get an answer to your question. Even though it is too late now, I'm sure it will be very helpful for next time. Good luck!

Kathyp · July 16, 2009, 02:13:23 PM

Quotego read a book

the library usually has several. so do the book stores. if you take a moment to flip through them, you can pick the ones that have the info you want. there is an advantage to reading books. there are no snarky answers and there is usually a logical line of action to follow. also pictures :-D

Quotetalk to your local bee club

your local bee club may be full of crusty old men, but it is an invaluable source of local info. there are things about your specific area that no one on here can answer unless they live where you do.

QuoteThat's just the way it has always been done

i doubt you'll hear that much here. more likely you will go so much, and such varied info, that you will be hard pressed to sort it all out......in that case.....reading a book and talking to local beekeepers can help.

we come from all over the world and from very different backgrounds. what one of us considers a straight forward answer, another might consider rude. mr x was rude and best ignored. if others of us are thought to be rude, we are also best ignored by those who are offended. i think there is an ignore button on here somewhere........

charles · July 16, 2009, 02:44:51 PM

QuoteCHARLES SAYS: This forum IS my local bee club.

This didn't go unnoticed, thank you very much - it is a wonderful statement and makes a bunch of us very proud. Thank you Charles.

Oppppps.... sorry Charles, I meant to quote you and over wrote your post and cannot get it back - but again, thank you for the wonderful comments

bearpaw · July 16, 2009, 06:19:41 PM

Quote from: iddee on July 15, 2009, 09:54:05 AM
If there is a bad spot on a comb that dips in half way up the frame and the cell is hanging down from it, the bees consider it the bottom of the comb. They do not use the frame for judging the top and bottom, only the comb in that particular spot.

This is a good point.

Same as you beewhisperer82 I would have thought that the cell was a supercedure as I've always thought that the swarm cells were at the bottom of the frame... I should start to think more like a bee :-D

Irwin · July 17, 2009, 09:37:15 AM

Quote from: beemaster on July 16, 2009, 01:33:50 PM
Mr X has been banned - he asked for it from his first post and it went down hill from there. Just thought I'd let you know :)

Some people come in looking for trouble, he obviously was one of them - I imagine an outcasted member who got their hands on a different computer and wanted to zing us a few more times, that is usually how it goes.

Another job well done tell the crew thanks :-D Is this a new record for Beemaster's three post and got banned.