Bees.....Pets or Slaves?

deejaycee · September 30, 2009, 07:49:09 PM

I like the tenant/landlord analogy. That's not a bad fit really.

My first instinct though, was to say that our bees are free-range livestock (as opposed to fenced in cattle, etc).

They recognise the benefits of the housing and such that we provide them and so choose to stick around, we do our best to contribute to their health and wellbeing in a way that doesn't impede them fulfilling their 'goals in life' (well, except for swarming maybe)... and the synergy resultant from that means they are able to store a honey crop well in excess of their needs, which we can take a share of.

If we don't do our job as beekeepers our penalty is that they won't achieve that excess or will revolt and abscond, and if they choose to take off despite our care then they face the ravages of the wild (mites, disease, predators, without our protection. It's a win/win.

Incidentally, we got over thinking about the bees as individuals very quickly. The hive is the individual, the bees within are more like the cells/organs in a body. No single bee or even a small few bees is capable of surviving and reproducing without the hive, anymore than a skin cell or strand of hair becomes a living entity after it falls from a person. The queen may be the heart, but she's no more capable of surviving for any period on her own once removed from the hive, than a heart is when removed from a body.

TwT · September 30, 2009, 07:52:33 PM

yaw are looking at it wrong, I am my bee's slave, I payed for them, spend money on them all the time, supply them with a home, supply water if needed, spend hours making sugar syrup to feed when needed, check them through out the year to make sure they are doing well, add brood from other hives when needed to keep population up in case of failing queen, keep ant's out of the hives, and at the end I get a little honey and raise some queens. Now who sounds like the slave. I wouldn't do if I didn't love it ;)

JP · September 30, 2009, 09:05:20 PM

I always refer to bees as God's favorite little insects. I don't see them as pets or slaves. I'm in a unique position in that I remove unwanted bees from homes and other structures and in most cases find new homes where they can be bees, slaves or pets to those I give them to.

My bees give me more than I could ever give them, and I'm not speaking of their resources, if I get honey, fine, ok if I don't either.

Bees are therapeutic and help me escape any troubles the world has to offer.

So, I guess my answer would be, yes, I love my bees, but I pretty much let them do their own thing and keep an eye on them in case they need my help.

Of course there's different levels of love/appreciation. People first, always, and my dogs and lizards, my bees, then my frogs.

BTW, ever heard of insect politics?

It doesn't exist!

...JP

rick42_98 · September 30, 2009, 09:27:45 PM

Bees - I see man (or woman) as their slaves. We buy (or build) them a hive, buy (or build) the frames. We pay for sugar for feed, medicine to treat them, special garments, equipment and protection to use while working with them. Dedicate time to do the activities which help them. We do (some of us) take the surplus honey for ourselves but we (most of the time) leave enough to get them through the winter (hopefully). If they swarm we try to get them back. To me we humans are the ones who work hard for them. Think about this. If I didn't keep bees then my bees would be in someone elses hive working just the same way. I personally am of no consequence to them. They couldn't care less about me and that is as it should be. I keep them because through them I can touch and experience a unique natural system that is there because of millions of years of adaptation and G-ds miraculous hand. I am the one who works for them and I love it and I wouldn't have it any other way. :bee:

Sparky · September 30, 2009, 10:06:07 PM

I like the tenant/landlord analogy. You would think for our efforts of providing a home and the benefits of us providing for their health that they would out of respect give us a propper 2 week notice when they are going to vacate said property and schedule the walk through final inspection in their presence. ;)
I do (provide) much more for the bees than I have to for my tenants though. I guess when I look at it like that they sound more of my dependants. HUMMM!!! I wonder if my tax accountant thought about this for deductions?

wayne · September 30, 2009, 10:41:01 PM

Pet implies an emotional attachment with a creature. Not easy with several thousand stinging insects that all look alike.
Slave implies a level of control not possible with free roaming creatures.
I would suggest livestock. Not that different from open range cattle or chickens. They stay close to the hive because that is their home, like the chicken house for the chickens at night or the stock tank in the pasture.
I worry about them the way any farmer would his stock but don't have an attachment to individuals.

And just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you. We often act in open discussions as if we are alone, saying things we don't think through, things that may be taken wrong or mis-used.
Some of us have been stung before and seen our own words used against us. Don't take it as personal that we sometimes suggest caution.

Tyro · October 01, 2009, 11:54:16 AM

Bees are probably most closely defined as livestock - although they don't exactly fit that definition perfectly either. Traditional livestock (pigs, cows, horses, chickens, etc.) generally don't run off AND survive for very long or very well (feral horses and pigs might be the exception). I don't consider bees to be domesticated in the same way that traditional livestock has been either (this would separate them from the horses, pigs and other livestock that becomes feral successfully).

I also don't consider bees individually - with the exception of the queen. I view them as hives+queen. In that view, it is only my relationship with the queen that is important, as she has the greatest impact on the hive. My relationship with the queens of my hives might best be described as facultatively mutualistic.

We both willingly associate (I can knock the hives over/she can leave and take the others with her-so either of us can end the association whenever we want). Neither of us 'needs' the other to survive and, in good years, we both benefit from the association (I get honey/they get a place to live that I help maintain).

Jim134 · October 01, 2009, 07:15:25 PM

<<<<<We are their Keepers, but not their Owners, for they are of Nature and No One owns Nature.(www.mountainvalleybees.com)>>>>>> Alan Bukley His user name is mountainvalleybee on Beemaster

I like it.

BEE HAPPY Jim 134 :)

utahbeekeeper · October 01, 2009, 11:07:36 PM

No love lost here for PETA, or Oprah for that matter.

TwT hit the mark, among others. My honey bees made me their slave, no doubt! As for the author of this thread . . . and one of the rare good and thought provoking threads here . . . for me the bees are an emotional touchstone to ancient history. I love contemplating that fact every time I am near them. Beekeeping is just something I want to bee involved with.

giant pumpkin peep · October 03, 2009, 12:32:42 AM

First I would would like to say that I am very anti-PETA...They kill more animals then they save. I might imagine that many PETA members are vegans or even vegitarians. They should really thank us because last time I checked bee help pollinate something called food. In paticular fruits, and some vegies I think. So without bees they could no longer have such accsess to fruits and bee pollination crops.

Back to topic. I believe that my bees are not my slave but the arn't my pets. It roally stinks if I loose my one and only hive and I might shed a small tear or two. But starting next year I am going to make styrofoam nucs in july with a frame of brood and bees and give them a queen. So if I have a loss I can replace with nuc.

Vibe · October 03, 2009, 10:04:10 AM

Quote from: giant pumpkin peep on October 03, 2009, 12:32:42 AM
But starting next year I am going to make styrofoam nucs in july with a frame of brood and bees and give them a queen. So if I have a loss I can replace with nuc.

Good luck with that. I attempted to use styrofoam as an insulator in one of my hives. The bees promptly proceded to chew it up and carry it out of the hive. you may have better luck with it.

David LaFerney · October 05, 2009, 12:38:14 AM

When it works out right it's a symbiotic relationship - both bees and keeper give something and in turn benefit from the arrangement. Like any other deal - for it to be a good deal both parties must be able to profit.

gaucho10 · October 07, 2009, 04:32:23 AM

Vibe,

You put the insulation on the outside of the hive...not on the inside.

Vibe · October 07, 2009, 10:23:08 AM

Quote from: gaucho10 on October 07, 2009, 04:32:23 AM
Vibe,

You put the insulation on the outside of the hive...not on the inside.

LOL. I know that....now.
But how would you do that with a styrofoam nuc?

gaucho10 · October 07, 2009, 11:01:29 AM

Vibe, You can cut and use insulation as I did last year when I lost the queen from one of my hives. I had to merge the two hives together. I used 1" insulation with aluminum backing. I used "duct" tape to hold the pieces together. In the spring I just split them again. Here is a pic of both merged hives.

Just leave the entrance(es) opened. I have a bottom entrance and a top vent hole that the bees will use as an upper entrance later on during the winter.