Here we go again. Another question on hive reversal

[annette]

OK, I winter my bees in 3 medium supers. I always find them in the top super by February (we generally have many warmer days by then). Whenever I go to check on the supers, I always find the bottom super completely empty. I have been reversing my hives for a couple of winters and it has worked out. I place the top super with the bees down below, and the empty super on the bottom on the top. The middle super I just leave as is.

Am I doing this correctly?? Shouldn't I just place the empty super that is on the bottom on the top and not do anything more?? Then the bees can just move up into it if they want to?

I might be assuming it is working out with the reversal just because the bees can fix the problems I might be making for them. But is seems to make sense to me, just to place the empty super on top.

Not sure!! I go into Spring each year a bit worried and unsure of what I am doing.

Can you help please?

Thanks so much
Annette

[Michael Bush]

The bees will work their way down,  just as they do in a tree, so you really don't need to move anything.  If you want to move the empty one to the top (and it's really empty or at least has no brood) this won't hurt anything.  What I would try to avoid is breaking up the brood nest.  If it spans two boxes (which with mediums it usually does and with deeps it often does) then I would not split that.

[Kathyp]

i stopped reversing when i started opening up hives in wall.  i found that early in the year, they are at the top.  as the hive builds back up, they move back down.  

on a rare occasion, i find mine in the bottom box and no matter how crowded they get, they don't seem to want to move up.  usually i can correct this by moving a couple of frames up.  i can't remember the last time i swapped boxes and my back thanks me  :-)

oh....forgot....with all that in mind, i put my new brood boxes under also.  that's kind of a PIA, but i have found they move down into them faster than they used to move up.

[gardeningfireman]

I am just going through my first winter, so I have no actual experience in this yet, but I have done a lot of reading. I had wondered and asked about reversing, also. With Warre' hives, you just add new boxes underneath the ones with comb. That tells me that the bees naturally move DOWN in a cavity, NOT UP as everyone with a Langstroth hive seems to want them to do. Also, who reverses the comb in wall and tree cavities for them? :)

[annette]

OK this is going to be an experiment for me this Spring as I will not move any supers around this time. I will let them just move on down as you all say. I will let you know what happens.

Thanks for the help
Annette

[Michael Bush]

Obviously, in a tree the bees have no choice but to start at the top and move down.  During winter they eat the stores, which cause them to move back up and then they start over filling things from the top down.  The only reason they go up in our hives is that's where we add the empty space.  Therefore they move to where there is space.  If we added the space on the bottom, they would move down.  :)  The only issue of an empty box on the bottom is that it's hard to tell when its been filled back in and know that it's time to add supers.  If you add the supers before they move back down, they may expand up and leave the space below behind.  So the advantage of moving an totally empty box up, is merely the convenience of being able to see when it's full to add another box.

[JP]

I find that when bees build in a vertical space such as a wall void, 99.9% of the time they go to the highest point and build downwards.

As M.B. mentioned, winter clusters are almost always found at the top of the vertical void.


...JP

[b reeves]

Hive reversal is for swarm control, if you do nothing they may swarm, no matter how much room they have below them, if a hive in a tree swarms no big deal, if one of my hives swarms I don't make as much honey, there is no clear answer, weigh your benefits, and keep checking for swarm cells
Bob

[Kathyp]

there are other and better ways to lessen swarming.  swapping boxes is a huge disruption of the hive.  moving a few frames is less. 

if they have plenty of room to grow and they swarm anyway, they were going to swarm. 

people swap boxes.  it's ok.  it's just that you need to ask 'why', and i think when you do, the answer will not justify the action.

[Two Bees]

I'm just too lazy to swap boxes!

[annette]

I plan on leaving them alone, but as Michael Bush has stated, if the bottom super is totally empty, then I will bring it up to the top.

Other than that, I usually keep the brood nest open to keep them from swarming.

We shall see how it all works out this year.

Sincerely
Annette

[bailey]

i like taking the bottom brood box out and then using the brood combs in my swarm traps in the spring.
works well!
bailey.