Going Foundationless

[Buzzen]

I am a beginner with no bees yet, I am thinking about using foundationless frames with a  "v"  strip attatched to the top frame for the bees to start from.  Would I need a horizontal wire for support midframe?  I plan on using all medium boxes.  Anything else I should be aware of using this system?

[gardeningfireman]

I am in transition to foundationless also. I did not use a support wire for my mediums, but I did use one in my deep frames.

[Kathyp]

you don't need them on any frames, but you do need to handle them with care until the sides are attached.  if you turn them sideways while inspecting frames, the comb can/will break.  once it's attached, it's very strong and you will be pleased with the results.  no more wires to mess with.  :-)

[Jahjude]

Would it pose a problem while spinning wireless deep frames in extractor??

[Kathyp]

that i don't know.  i don't use deeps for honey.  i would think that you would have to be a little careful with deeps and at least start them very slowly. 

[Jahjude]

yah ok,fair enough ;)

[Buzzen]

So as long as I am careful I shouldn't need the wire.  Thanks for the info!

[rast]

 New comb with no wires and a transgential extractor will probably blow the comb out, a radial is less prone to do that. Older comb is far less prone to blowing out. New comb is very soft and fragile.

[Jahjude]

That's the kinda chain of thought i was having,hence my previous question :-\

[Sparky]

As Kathy mentioned the bees tend to leave the sides and bottoms unattached so be careful not to hold the frames sideways while doing your inspections. Turn them completely upside down and it will be no problem. I started to experiment with some frames that use, starter strips and then glue one Popsicle stick directly in the middle of the grooved bottom frame board to see if it encourages them to go ahead and attach the cells when they reach the bottom. They have only been in a couple of hives for a short time and we have a bunch of rain now, so I will post the results when the weather is nice to do a inspection.  Some may have tried this and may chime in. The only other problem to look for, if you do not put two or three frames with foundation mixed with the starter strip frames is, they sometimes take off building comb across a strip and then change direction and bridge under the top boards of several empty frames. Correct this as soon as it starts or it will be a mess.

[Kathyp]

very rarely have i had a problem with cross comb if i use starter strips.  it usually happens to me with cutouts if i don't get the banded in comb very straight.  if you give them a guide, either wax or wood, they will almost always do a find job of drawing it out.  eventually they will attach the sides and (most) of the bottom.  since they draw several frames at the same time, attaching sides and bottom sometimes takes time.

[annette]

So as long as I am careful I shouldn't need the wire.  Thanks for the info!

I have all foundationless frames. As Kathy said, once the comb is attached to all 3 sides (top and 2 sides) you are fine.  The comb gets very strong and hard.  I am not all that careful in my handling, except on very hot days.  On those days, the wax will soften up and you can break it then. The bees have done a wonderful job drawing out the combs nice and straight.

[Michael Bush]

>Would I need a horizontal wire for support midframe?  I plan on using all medium boxes.
http://www.bushfarms.com/beesfoundationless.htm#dowire

> Anything else I should be aware of using this system?
http://www.bushfarms.com/beesfoundationless.htm

>Would it pose a problem while spinning wireless deep frames in extractor??
http://www.bushfarms.com/beesfoundationless.htm#extract