Checked my two new hives today! Thanks MB these are foundation less

Michael Bush · May 18, 2010, 09:28:44 AM

>How would they hold up in the extractor?

Fine.

The Bix · May 18, 2010, 11:01:52 AM

Question about prepping foundationless frames: has anyone tried to make starter strips that hang down vertically instead of horizontally underneath the top bar?

I was thinking about making three one inch wide slices of foundation and putting two of them adjacent to the side bars and one right in the middle. I have a big pile of unbuilt frames with grooves. I would like to make them foundationless, but not all that excited about the extra work involved. Seems like that would be a lot easier as you would have gravity working for you because the foundation slips into the grooves and stays and you wouldn't have to worry about fastening the starter strip to the underside of the top bar.

Kathyp · May 18, 2010, 11:24:35 AM

look at some of the foundationless pictures. the bees start in the middle (usually) of the top bar and build down and out in a U shape.

i have found foundationless to be less work than wrangling sheets of foundation into every frame. since i am a lazy beekeeper you can be sure that i would not do it if it were more work! :evil:

hardwood · May 18, 2010, 11:35:48 AM

I've switched 12 of my hives to foundationless and love it! There are problems though; the white comb makes it difficult to see eggs and small larva (so I keep black plasticel in another yard for grafting) and the bees never seem to draw the comb all the way to the bottom bar, but instead leave a "bee space". Anyone have the same experience? Is there a trick to getting them to draw that final 3/8" at the bottom?

Scott

harvey · May 18, 2010, 12:37:15 PM

I can see the larva alright but that is after it is close to being capped. Eggs are another issue. If it weren't for the larva and the capped brood I wouldn't know I had a queen cause I have not yet seen the eggs on the new comb! It is really that white and almost translucent in places. Pretty sharp actually. I think it will darken though as it ages and is reused. Some of mine are almost to the bottom now but they haven't attached it anywhere but the top yet. Now for a question? When I add the second box should it be on top or on the bottom? Or will it be the same as with foundation? I put it on top last year with foundation and everything went fine but in the thinking of natural would they be more apt to build better if I put the new box underneath?

VolunteerK9 · May 18, 2010, 02:13:54 PM

My plans are to just place a drawn frame in the center of a new (second) box to act as a ladder and another foundationless in the bottom box.

Michael Bush · May 19, 2010, 03:21:53 AM

>Question about prepping foundationless frames: has anyone tried to make starter strips that hang down vertically instead of horizontally underneath the top bar?

I have seen, as far back as Langstroth, vertical braces, but those will not in any way induce the bees to build comb in the middle of the frame. They just provide some support.

>I was thinking about making three one inch wide slices of foundation and putting two of them adjacent to the side bars and one right in the middle.

Bees are not attracted to foundation. They just build comb on it because it's in the way of not building comb on it. If you doubt this, space your frames about 1 3/4" apart with wax foundation in them and see where they build their combs. They will build all of their combs between the foundations, not on them. The reason a starter strip of foundation works is the same reason a starter strip of wood works, it provides a place that when the bees hang from it they sense that and build off of it. They will not be hanging from the veritcal ones.

> I have a big pile of unbuilt frames with grooves. I would like to make them foundationless, but not all that excited about the extra work involved.

There is no work. Just put a wood strip in the groove...

> Seems like that would be a lot easier as you would have gravity working for you because the foundation slips into the grooves and stays and you wouldn't have to worry about fastening the starter strip to the underside of the top bar.

But that's not how bees work.