Combining weak hives and re-queening

Started by MeadFarm, May 25, 2010, 05:43:55 PM

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MeadFarm

Hi there!
We have four colonies that aren't doing so well (2 Italian and 2 Carniolan) from packages that are now 6 weeks old. Even our newest colonies (3 weeks) are booming and one has already drawn out 8 frames! Our weak colonies are only fully drawn on only 2-4 frames after 6 weeks. Not so impressive.
We are considering combining the four weak colonies to make two, and re-queening each. Would it be worth trying to let these small combined colonies raise their own queens? Or would re-queening be a better bet because of both the colony size and genes? I'm thinking that time is of the essence - we do hope to eventually raise our own queens but are not sure if this is the time.
If we do re-queen and use the newspaper method, do we just put a caged queen in one of the boxes and hope that by the time the newspaper is gone and the queen is out, they'll all be one big happy family? Any suggestions or resources you have would be greatly appreciated!
Thanks!!!

Kathyp

requeening and/or combining are options.  the first thing i'd look at is feeding.  what kind of stores do they have and have you been feeding.  if there is no stored honey and you have not fed, i'd do that first.  it's amazing what a difference that can make.

if you have poor queens, don't raise queens from that poor stock.  kill the queens that are in the hives, combine, and requeen.  you can kill the queens, do the newspaper combine and requeen the next day or so.  i think you'd have better acceptance of the new queens if you leave them queenless for 24 hours or so. 
The people the people are the rightful masters of both congresses and courts not to overthrow the Constitution, but to overthrow the men who pervert it.

Abraham  Lincoln
Speech in Kansas, December 1859

MeadFarm

I have been feeding all my new packages and there is plenty of nectar down here now (and with all the rain there will probably continue to be!)
I was wondering about the poor gene thing. I was told by a local beekeeper that many the queens this year, because of the weather, haven't been well mated. These girls came out with guns a blazin' for the first three weeks but seemed to have lost steam. I'm not sure if it's a genetic thing or not. Your probably right though, it's not worth risking letting them raise more of the same.

Kathyp

you may or may not have bad queens.  weather, nutrition, and other stuff can slow a hive down.  what does the brood pattern look like and how much brood is there?  if you have been feeding, have you been feeding to much?  look around the brood and see if the cells are filled with syrup.  if they are, the queens area to lay may be restricted.  this might be true even if all the frames are not filled out.  if it is, rotate some of the undrawn frames in to the edge of the brood nest.  that might be something you want to do anyway.

if you are unsure of what you are seeing, take some pictures and have a moderator post them for you.  that way we will be able to see what you are seeing and give you a better idea.
The people the people are the rightful masters of both congresses and courts not to overthrow the Constitution, but to overthrow the men who pervert it.

Abraham  Lincoln
Speech in Kansas, December 1859

riverrat

Im with kathy on this one I think the jury should see more evidence before sending the queen to the gallows. IMHO I think there is a lot of queens that get executed after being wrongly accused of a problem in there hive that they may not have had any control of. one usually views the queen as the one that runs the hive but in reality its the workers that make the decisions.
never take the top off a hive on a day that you wouldn't want the roof taken off your house

MeadFarm

Thank you. Good insights! Laying space may be an issue. I'm not sure if it has to do with too much stored food though. After the first round of brood emerged the queens' laying patterns were dismal (lots of empty cells). The numbers just don't seem to be enough to draw out new comb (they are only on 2-4 frames drawn in the 4 hives in question). Serge Lebesque, a local bee guru, is big on open to sealed brood ratio. If the amount falls too far below 1:1 open to sealed brood, then the hive is in decline. This is based on the amount of time the brood spends in each of these phases so 1:1 isn't exact but it's a good rule of thumb. So in addition to the small numbers in the colony I just not seeing enough new brood.
I will check on the available laying space before making any rash decisions. I've been a little hesitant to take a frame of brood from a strong colony because they are all young colonies and I'm new to all of this and I don't want to mess around too much or I may lose my baseline! 
I'll take photos of any questionable frames weather permitting! The rain and cold have been a factor for me getting into the hives to really do thorough inspections.
This stuff is sooo interesting and fun! I really appreciate everyone's help and advise!