Swarm Survival

[GT]

My 2 year old hive swarmed today. A call from the landscaper told me and I ran home to capture it. Pretty simple procedure - I prepared a deep and medium super with both new and drawn comb, then cut the swarmed branch and placed it into an empty garbage can with lid. Within minutes I shook the branch down onto the new hive body, placed an empty deep box on top, gave it a quart of 2:1 syrup (water:sugar), then closed it up. The new hive was set up right between the swarmed hive and another hive I started from a package this April.
How'd I do? What are the survival chances of the swarm. What are the chances of the swarmed hive rebuilding?

[iddee]

If they can get into the empty box, they will draw wild comb there rather than use the frames. I hope you have it closed off to them.

[GT]

no empty box - both the deep and mid have frames (both drawn and new comb). what do you mean you hope I have it closed off to them?

[Kathyp]

you did fine and the chances of survival are good.  be careful not to give them to much space at first.  just as a package takes time to get numbers up, so does a swarm.  in the mean time, to much space leave room for things like wax moth and SHB if you have them in your area.

[iddee]

>>>>I shook the branch down onto the new hive body, placed an empty deep box on top,<<<<

I thought an empty deep may not have frames in it. If they can get past the feeder and into it, they will leave the frames and hang comb in the empty.

[GT]

iddee - I better explain. I put one empty box on top of the inner cover and placed a jar of syrup over the hole...

interesting PS to this story - the same hive swarmed again today.  My wife called and told me something was 'weird' so I left work again to check it out. Checked the hive bodies and they were  empty, found the swarm  about 25 feet up in a hedge. So I performed the same routing that I did yesterday. Seems like it should work fine but what the heck happened??
Has this ever happened to anyone? Maybe I didnt get the queen the first time?

[hardwood]

Swarms do that sometimes. Try anchoring with a frame of open brood and/or place a queen excluder (includer in this case) between the bottom board and the 1st box for 2 days max.

Scott

[riverrat]

there was something in there new hive they didn't like and unfortunately they some times don't tell us what they didn't like. i have found if you give a small swarm to much room they will abscond if you could rob a frame of open brood from one of your other hives it will help anchor them in. you didn't mention it but i usually block the entrance with grass and let the swarm remove it to get out. also you said foundation and drawn comb how did you have it arranged. i try to put all my drawn comb in the center until they get established and laying then work the foundation into the hive over time. i prefer to use nuc boxes to hive swarms i usually use a 5 on 5 configuration until they are well established then move them to 10 frame equipment I would feed 1:1 sugar syrup you want to simulate a nectar flow then in fall feed 2:1 for them to build stores just my 2 cents

[Finski]

What are the survival chances of the swarm.

120%

What are the chances of the swarmed hive rebuilding?

0% during next 2 months.

If you want to normalize the hive and get honey, let the swarm draw foundations and it looses swarming fever. It took all forager with it and the original hive is not able tp forga for long time. After 3 weeks the swarmed hive start to rear brood again and it power goes to brood nursing next 4 weeks. Then it has enough new bees that all old bees are able to forage. But they are about 50% any more alive and they have lost foraging power.

A swarm forage what it fogage and after 4 weeks it begins to enlarge. Most of swarm bees are dead and swarm has either foragers much.

to get gontinuous brood production and keep on foracing power you should join the hiveparts.
You leave the young laying queen into the hive and take that old away, kill it or make a small nuc.

[Finski]

interesting PS to this story - the same hive swarmed again today.  Has this ever happened to anyone? Maybe I didnt get the queen the first time?

it has happened to me sometimes.

One reason is that I put a hive into sunny place and it was a hot day. I start to feed them after capturing and they had 3 days food in stomach. They thought that "this is hot and crowdy place, lets go"

Another case was that I feeded the hive. It has allready one frame eggs and it leaved.

The third reason I do not know. They just want to swarm.


****************

There are

[Finski]

.
there are recommendations to handle swarm.....

Keep the swarm in cool place 2 days

Don't feed it during next 3 days.

Put excluder to prevent queen escape.

Put a brood frame into swarm box that bees keep it home better.

*****************
PS: not to use frames and foundations is out of questuion to me. natural combs have no rationale value.

.

[Kathyp]

swarms are hungry, why would you not feed?

swarms are also comb building machines just as packages are.

the value of natural comb is that 1. you don't have to spend money on foundation, but more importantly 2. they build the size cell they need when they need it.  i have frames that have lots of drone comb and frames that have none.  how nice is that!  :-)

[Finski]

swarms are hungry, why would you not feed?

Swarms are not hungry. They have food with them and they get food from pastures. [/quote]

swarms are also comb building machines just as packages are.

In early spring there are no pastures.

the value of natural comb is that 1. you don't have to spend money on foundation,

To draw one box combs needs 15 kg honey if you have not foundations.

One box foundatiosn are 1 kg.  To dar them combs need 6-8 kg honey.

You may replace part og honey with sugar.

they build the size cell they need when they need it. 

I do not ask what they need. Bees are working to me. i am the master.

i have frames that have lots of drone comb and frames that have none.  how nice is that!  :-)

That is one problem. Too much energy to drones.

[Finski]

2. they build the size cell they need when they need it. 

I you execute the bees's wishes, their first wish is that keep out of their hive.

Second wish is that keep out

Third wish is: don't involve their business by no means.

.

[Kathyp]

you crack me up.  how about if i just execute the bees?   :-D

you may be right in all that you say.  your needs are probably different from mine as a hobby beekeeper.  i don't really mind if i have to feed them a bit.  i saved the money for the sugar in not buying foundation and.....in being (so far) pretty successful in not treating for mites.  + it's a lot easer to break out old comb and just pop the frames back in and i always have wax!

[Finski]

 i saved the money for the sugar in not buying foundation and

How much?

The honey cappings are almost the same amount of wax what I need annualy to renew the combs.

I take wax to foundation maker and he takes 3 dollars per kilo when he press the plate and the figure.

3 dollar means to me o,5 kg honey to sell.

So you saved 3 dollar but you lost as honey 6 dollar per kilo x 7 kg = about  40 dollars.

5 boxes in the hive = 5X 40 dollars = 200$

I have different style in a hobby

look here http://www.honeybeeworld.com/diary/articles/fdnvsdrawn.htm

[GT]

Well glad to see my little post is such a hot topic. But let me add my latest incite:
The captured swarm is gone. Swarmed for the 3rd time in as many days, unfortunately no one was around for #3 and they're gone now.
The original hive that they swarmed from is doing well. Queen cells, brood, honey and its a strong looking active hive.
So those who said I did well and chances were excellent for the captured swarm rebuilding were wrong in this case. For those who said the hive that they swarmed from would have a 0% chance of survival were wrong too...
We can only know so much about these amazing little creatures

[Finski]

.

Perhaps the swarm finds a better beekeeper.  :-X

[Kathyp]

if you do a search on capturing (and keeping) swarms, i think you'll find that people have less success hiving swarms from their own yards.  someone (iddee?) pointed out that scouts are constantly looking for a good new home for th swarm.  if you hive a swarm from your yard, in your yard, there's always the chance that the scouts will keep returning with info about the new digs. 

to bad about your swarm, but you did your best.  they just had other ideas  :-)

[GT]

Dear Finski -
Whay the slander? Maybe my bees read all about you and are crossing the atlantic now in search of a perfect beekeeper in Finland.
Talk about rude.