Beware....Crooked Beekeepers!

BjornBee · July 19, 2010, 03:06:56 PM

I hope everyone took the time to read the recent letters to the editor articles in both Bee Culture and ABJ, concerning shady beekeepers taking advantage of others.

In light of the recent discussions of "judging others" and the kids knocking over hives, I thought perhaps this is appropriate to point out.

The stories mentioned above (Bee Culture and ABJ) are about missing hives and bad overwintering deals, where the beekeeper gets nothing back after some prearranged deal with another beekeeper.

Here is my story.....

I was contacted two years ago by a beekeeper out of Ohio. The deal went like this. I give him 100 hives for him to take to California. He overwinters them, uses them for pollination, and guarantees 100 alive hives back in early spring, ready for splitting, which would allow you to double your hives in a time that most hives would still be coming out of the grips of winter here in the northeast. Comparing 100 hives ready to be split, to the average winter loss hive, and factoring in the fact that I would not be feeding or caring for the hives, it all sounded something reasonable.

The problem I had, was it sounded too good, and I did not have my hives palletized. So I passed on the deal.

Another beekeeper I know sent over 100 hives. As I remember from the story I was told....The beekeeper once in California, stated that half the colonies did not make grade for pollination. Then the rest died sitting in holding yards. Phone calls went unreturned and the stories did not match up. The owner of the hives checked them out for himself after flying to California, only to realize that the frames of dead bees in his boxes were not his. The bees and frames were gone and replaced with older deadout frames. The beekeeper running the scam even said that if he wanted his equipment back, he would have to pay the shipping, since he actually made no money in the effort.

Now, anyone can read the above story and perhaps rationalize this or that. Maybe it did happen that way. But this is a story that has played out over a number of years (even before CCD) with this particular beekeeper. He preys on those who do not know he is. He latches on to other people's hives with wild claims of return, yet has not returned hives as promised. And it seems his behavior has been going on for years.

Why bring this up? Because the beekeeper I reference who lost his hives, will do nothing to this crook. His religious convictions, prevent him from participating in court battles. And judging others is frowned upon. He stated that nobody should be judged, and nobody really knows what demons and problems this person is dealing with in his life to allow him to do this to another person. He is willing to take the loss, knowing that he (crook) will be judged upon his death, and will get his just reward. And if he (crook) is going to get sued, he is willing to let others take the time, cost, and effort.

Although some suggest that beekeepers are all great people, we are not. Most are but not all.

I wonder how this adult beekeeper who preys on other people started down this road. He seems to have had a long record of repeat performances. Did he manipulate his parents? Did his actions earlier in life go unpunished? How many beekeeper looked the other way, allowing the next set of victims to fall prey.

I ask that for those who know who I speak, please do not mention his name. This was a discussion on another forum where his name was used, and from what I heard, legal threats were thrown around and the posts removed. The person writing the articles in Bee Culture and ABJ, did not mention names. But I can only suspect that it was the same person.

All beekeepers, especially those growing in size, looking to go to California for the first time, or wanting to get a deal perhaps doubling their numbers in one winter, should understand that this is a problem in this industry.

PS for Robo....I did not change my signature. Someone is throwing fuel..... :-D

G3farms · July 19, 2010, 03:39:48 PM

There is a commercial beek here in town that fell prey to the very same scam. Do not know if it was the same person or not, but the exact same story he told to me almost word for word.

slacker361 · July 19, 2010, 07:52:13 PM

there are ppl all over the place trying to take advantage of others, Just recently someone was selling A used extractor, which that is not a problem except for the information that they didnt divulge. It was a model that wasnt made any longer, and they where trying to sell a used extractor for 75.00 more than what they paid for it. So if it is hives or extractors or selling "snake oil" to sick people it happens all the time

G3farms · July 19, 2010, 08:08:15 PM

I know nothing of the extractor deal you are talking about, but....................

why would it be wrong to try and sell something for more than what you paid for it? Ever been to the grocery store???

When buying any kind of equipment it is always best to do a little research which would include looking it up in a current catalog or contacting the manufacturer. Maybe the seller did not know it was no longer not in production.

luvin honey · July 19, 2010, 08:27:31 PM

Quote from: BjornBee on July 19, 2010, 03:06:56 PM
PS for Robo....I did not change my signature. Someone is throwing fuel..... :-D

Seriously?!? I thought only WE could change our signatures!!

FRAMEshift · July 19, 2010, 09:31:09 PM

Quote from: luvin honey on July 19, 2010, 08:27:31 PM

Seriously?!? I thought only WE could change our signatures!!

The pedigree of statements
Does not concern Bjornbee;
a misquote, all the time, to him
inevitability.
---luvin honey

Not at all! :-D

BjornBee · July 19, 2010, 09:37:37 PM

Quote from: luvin honey on July 19, 2010, 08:27:31 PM
Quote from: BjornBee on July 19, 2010, 03:06:56 PM
PS for Robo....I did not change my signature. Someone is throwing fuel..... :-D
Seriously?!? I thought only WE could change our signatures!!

:lau:

I'm waiting for someone to step forward and fess up. I thought it was a funny joke. But let me be clear....I did not do it myself.

luvin honey · July 19, 2010, 09:38:12 PM

Quote from: FRAMEshift on July 19, 2010, 09:31:09 PM
Quote from: luvin honey on July 19, 2010, 08:27:31 PM

Seriously?!? I thought only WE could change our signatures!!

The pedigree of statements
Does not concern Bjornbee;
a misquote, all the time, to him
inevitability.
---luvin honey
Not at all! :-D

Hah! That's great! :lol:

Kathyp · July 19, 2010, 09:43:40 PM

i had an addition made to mine a couple of weeks ago. no one fessed up. ;)

CountryBee · July 19, 2010, 10:28:16 PM

Thank you for the info, even for me a poor little hobby beekeeper. But I will tell my friends about deals like that, too good to be true. Thanks again! :)

slacker361 · July 20, 2010, 09:08:02 AM

Quote from: G3farms on July 19, 2010, 08:08:15 PM
I know nothing of the extractor deal you are talking about, but....................

why would it be wrong to try and sell something for more than what you paid for it? Ever been to the grocery store???

Hopefully you are buying brand new food at the grocery store and not used food, so yes it is a good thing to mark up the price, but if i buy a car and use it for a year and expect to sell it for more than I paid for it, well in this persons opinion that is just wrong.

BjornBee · July 20, 2010, 09:37:26 AM

An honest sale is completed, when natural forces of supply and demand, free of fraud and illegal forces, and marketed to reach intended buyers, all come together.

Many times, supply and demand dictate that the sale price is more than what was originally paid. Many examples of that, whether guns, cars, etc.

The sale need to be in good faith with full disclosure. The product must be fully described.

The sale needs to be "marketed" in some way to bring as much market to participate and consider the sale, so natural forces of supply and demand take hold. Some of the times you sell for less if their are less buyers, and sometimes you sell for more if there are many buyers.

Certainly any seller can sidestep these basics and sell for less than the market dictates due to their own perception that "this is enough", or I can't ask more because I got a great deal and I should pass on that great deal to the next person, and so on.

But supply and demand and the free market dictating price, does not take in to account personal motives and preferences. Those items can come into play, but it throws off the natural market place, and either increases or decreases sales forces in other areas of the market.

Natural forces dictate you sell to the highest price as demand dictates. You do not sell to the lowest offer made. That is not how the market works the best.

I don't think there is anything wrong with someone saying "I think I will sell my car for $1,000" and then selling to the first guy who drives up. But with research and a little checking, they could of possible sold for $1500. And if that is what the going price is, and it happens to be a couple hundred more than what you paid previously, I do not see how that is wrong, in my opinion. It just indicates what the market is willing to pay, and perhaps suggests the great deal you got from the past seller who may not of been willing to do the homework to get a good deal.

Scadsobees · July 20, 2010, 10:05:32 AM

Anybody who sues or threatens to over names being discussed in a posting is automatically crooked in my book.

An honest agent will try to find out what is behind any complaints and attempt to rectify the situation, or apologize for any misunderstandings at a minimum. A soft word turneth away wrath, and a threat to sue reveals one's true nature.

That previous is in reference to postings, not an honest effort to rectify a situation when one has been taken advantage of and is the victim of a fraud.

That being said, I have no problem with somebody selling something for more than they paid for it, as long as they aren't trying to mislead. If you buy an extractor for $75, use it, and try to sell it for $150, go for it. If it is a bad deal, nobody will buy it. Somebody did something like that with a few picaso paintings, except add a few zeros to the second number.

slacker361 · July 20, 2010, 02:55:39 PM

in my case with the honey extractor they were not being fully honest and did not fully disclose all pertinent information, they didn't try to represent it as the current model , but did not say that it wasn't, and the statement of this one didn't come with legs, could lead one to believe that you could purchase the current legs and they would fit, which would not be so. I fully understand supply and demand, but I also understand when some one is "trying to get over" . I think that no one has a problem paying for the true value of things, i believe the problem comes in , is when the seller knowingly is trying to get more for an item than what it is worth and will misrepresent said item.

There is nothing wrong with making an honest profit

G3farms · July 20, 2010, 04:48:20 PM

Did you end up buying the extractor??

Most times you should know a little about what you are going to purchase, I call it "doing your homework".

It takes a willing buyer and a willing seller to make a good deal!

slacker361 · July 20, 2010, 07:56:32 PM

i did not buy it, I actually called someone that gave me all the information, that made me decide to not buy it. Sorry to be cryptic but, I promised I would not say who told me the info. so I did my do diligence . My point of telling the story is that there is always someone trying to scam others.

buzzbee · July 20, 2010, 08:04:02 PM

Do not divulge names or otherwise on this forum. It will be treated as a personal attack and will not be tolerated.We are not here to bring others down,there are better business bureaus and such for that.This forum will not participate in such things.
If we suspect a member here posting something fraudulent,it will be dealt with.