Small hive beetle in Washington state

Timebandit154 · December 29, 2010, 04:00:31 PM

I found this week three black beetles in my hives on top of the inner cover
I was wonder if anybody eles has found shb in western washington state there hives around here
How do I treat them here or what can I do

It a fun hobbie but why more bugs than you can throw a stick at

Kathyp · December 29, 2010, 04:08:21 PM

to my knowledge, we don't have SHB up here. other critters will seek the protection of the hives. i have some little beetle like things that get in the top of mine,but they are not SHB. if you can take a picture, one of the moderators can post it for you.

AllenF · December 29, 2010, 10:03:32 PM

Were the beetles still alive or dead from the cold? And what did they look like? Pics are nice.

hardwood · December 29, 2010, 10:27:43 PM

Allen, they are small beetles that like bee hives...hence the "SHB" :-D

Scott

AllenF · December 29, 2010, 11:02:41 PM

:-D

Brian D. Bray · December 30, 2010, 04:04:20 AM

Quote from: Timebandit154 on December 29, 2010, 04:00:31 PM
I found this week three black beetles in my hives on top of the inner cover
I was wonder if anybody eles has found shb in western washington state there hives around here
How do I treat them here or what can I do

It a fun hobbie but why more bugs than you can throw a stick at

I have been keeping bees in Washington state for over 50 years, I have yet to smell, see, or find any kind of evidence of a hive beetle in any hive I've inspected during that time. I have found beetles in hives, much as with ants, but they are larger than a hive beetle--I forget the name of the critter at the moment.

ballardbeekeeper · February 09, 2011, 03:27:17 PM

Hi, I'm new to this forum and just one year into beekeeping. I have two Kenyan Top Bar hives in my back yard in Ballard. I started them last year with packages. Within two weeks of establishing the hives, I found dozens of small hive beetles congregated on the bottom board of the hives. I was able to identify them as SHB under magnification. I subsequently found larvae exiting the hives and newly hatched adults hovering and entering the hives in the evenings exactly in line with the SHB life cycle. I have observed bees herding the SHB, another documented sign. I've been experimenting with different methods of control and my hives are still (barely) alive as I write in February 2011. I'm happy to chat about what seems to work and what doesn't. Sadly, I can absolutely confirm the presence of small hive beetles in the Seattle area and given that my packages came from a large supplier in 2010, I expect this coming summer will make a large number of people familiar with them. I notified every relevant group and government agency I thought would want to know but lack of expertise and lack of funding seemed to be an impediment to nipping the establishment of SHB in the bud.
Best wishes,
John Manning

asprince · February 09, 2011, 07:15:31 PM

Quote from: ballardbeekeeper on February 09, 2011, 03:27:17 PM
I've been experimenting with different methods of control and my hives are still (barely) alive as I write in February 2011. I'm happy to chat about what seems to work and what doesn't.

John, please share your findings.

Steve

ballardbeekeeper · February 09, 2011, 10:28:40 PM

I cant claim any scientific credibility but I'll try to briefly outline what I've found out. Please note that my limited experience is only with Kenyan Top Bar hives and these have some innate advantages for controlling SBH over Langstroth hives:

SBH need shelter within the hive otherwise the bees will harass and corral them. I routinely find them in the exact same areas of my hive, just out of reach of the bees. Hives should be designed to leave no hiding places in the walls. I built my hives before knowing anything about SBH and am rehousing in newly redesigned hives this Spring. The redesigned hives have no hiding places, better guarded entrances, oil traps and larvae traps.

SBH need to enter the hive as adults and exit as larvae. It is important to keep the hive sealed completely except for intended entrances and vents. Vents should be protected with very fine mesh. The larvae need to get to soil so placing the hives on concrete might make a difference.

Having a screen at the bottom of the hive was a big advantage in my hives. The bees chase the SBH through the screen and they congregate on the bottom board. I would scrape them off in the evenings. Quite enjoyable! They can live and reproduce in a sealed jar without water or food for over a week.

I have chickens in my yard. They spend a lot of time under the hives eating dead bees and rooting. I've wondered if they are finding and eating the larvae also.

PS. I noticed there's an entire thread on this forum on the subject too and recommend checking there for ideas also.

jdnewberry · February 10, 2011, 01:32:18 AM

SHB are everywhere here in the south. It's just something we have to deal with. Unfortunately, they are here to stay and spreading to other parts of the country. I have successfully put a dent in their population around my hives, though.

The product I use is called GardStar. It is a "ground drench" that is safe for use around honey bees. As mentioned above, the beetles exit the hive as larvae and complete the transformation into beetles in the ground. GardStar works to kill the larvae outside the hive, thus preventing the beetles from multiplying. It's not a cheap product, but for about $35 you can get a 4oz bottle. That makes 20 gallons or so, and 1 gallon treats the ground in front of about 6 hives. It also works to kill ticks, mosquitoes and fire ants - all pests of the beekeeper!

If it were me, I would treat as soon as possible. There is a chance that you can stop this problem now before it gets out of control. A strong hive can defend against the beetles, but it's better to rid the area of them now as opposed to relying on the hives later. It's no guarantee that it will work, but it's definitely worth a shot.

troutstalker2 · February 10, 2011, 09:35:01 AM

Jdnewberry

Try going to a farm supply store. They have the same thing (permethrin) under a different name for much cheaper. I do believe its in a little different consentration and will need to adjust the application accordingly.

David

Brian D. Bray · February 10, 2011, 04:42:42 PM

Looks like I'll be building some SHB traps and seeing if they have progressed up into the San Juan Islands.

Autodidact · February 12, 2011, 09:46:59 AM

i'm here in oregon and we dont have a worry about the shb. to explain, the shb needs warm winters to survive, thats why the south has the problem. there has been evidence of beetles coming in packages from cali. although none has survived the winter. i think the shb found in wash. will show the same results this spring.

asprince · February 12, 2011, 10:17:15 AM

Quote from: Autodidact on February 12, 2011, 09:46:59 AM
i'm here in oregon and we dont have a worry about the shb. to explain, the shb needs warm winters to survive, thats why the south has the problem. there has been evidence of beetles coming in packages from cali. although none has survived the winter. i think the shb found in wash. will show the same results this spring.

I pray that you are correct. If they cluster with the bees why can they not survive the winter?

Steve

FRAMEshift · February 12, 2011, 02:14:36 PM

Quote from: Autodidact on February 12, 2011, 09:46:59 AM
i'm here in oregon and we dont have a worry about the shb. to explain, the shb needs warm winters to survive, thats why the south has the problem. there has been evidence of beetles coming in packages from cali. although none has survived the winter. i think the shb found in wash. will show the same results this spring.

Here in NC we have winter lows down to about 5 degrees and may go weeks without going above 40 degrees. And we have lots of SHB. Is Oregon colder than this?

Brian D. Bray · February 13, 2011, 12:45:17 PM

Quote from: FRAMEshift on February 12, 2011, 02:14:36 PM
Quote from: Autodidact on February 12, 2011, 09:46:59 AM
i'm here in oregon and we dont have a worry about the shb. to explain, the shb needs warm winters to survive, thats why the south has the problem. there has been evidence of beetles coming in packages from cali. although none has survived the winter. i think the shb found in wash. will show the same results this spring.

Here in NC we have winter lows down to about 5 degrees and may go weeks without going above 40 degrees. And we have lots of SHB. Is Oregon colder than this?

We get down below 15 F about one or two nights a winter, but it is not uncommon to go for a week or two of temps in the low 20's at night every night. I've had my new septic drain field ( new design only 10 inches deep) freeze twice so far this winter. do you think a ground freeze of 12 inches deep is enough to kill off SHB larva? SHB is one thing I've never experienced.

FRAMEshift · February 13, 2011, 01:01:18 PM

Quote from: Brian D. Bray on February 13, 2011, 12:45:17 PM
I've had my new septic drain field ( new design only 10 inches deep) freeze twice so far this winter. do you think a ground freeze of 12 inches deep is enough to kill off SHB larva? SHB is one thing I've never experienced.

So you mean the top of your drain pipes is at 10" or the bottom of the pipes is at 10"? You may have a spot in your drain field that is closer to the surface. I don't think the ground would freeze to 12" given the temps you mention. In my county, the building code requires footings go down to 12". That means it never freezes that deep... and we've had some winters much colder than what you mention.

Brian D. Bray · February 13, 2011, 01:15:24 PM

Quote from: FRAMEshift on February 13, 2011, 01:01:18 PM
Quote from: Brian D. Bray on February 13, 2011, 12:45:17 PM
I've had my new septic drain field ( new design only 10 inches deep) freeze twice so far this winter. do you think a ground freeze of 12 inches deep is enough to kill off SHB larva? SHB is one thing I've never experienced.
So you mean the top of your drain pipes is at 10" or the bottom of the pipes is at 10"? You may have a spot in your drain field that is closer to the surface. I don't think the ground would freeze to 12" given the temps you mention. In my county, the building code requires footings go down to 12". That means it never freezes that deep... and we've had some winters much colder than what you mention.

Can removed a full shovel full of dirt and then have to be careful going deeper, I'd say the bottom of the pipe is at 10 inches, also the pipe is only 1/2 inch diameter. This is a new style system that was designed and now required for all the San Juan Islands due to shallow soils and lots of volcanic rock. But my soil is 2 ft deep then hardpan. I had to replace system 1.5 years ago due to old system failing (after 50 years). This is the 2nd winter and I've had the drain field freeze up twice each winter so far (when temps drop to high teens or low 20s for several days on end). Gray water is pumped from the affluant tank into the drain field under pressure triggered by a float level. I plan to lay about another food of soil on top of what's their to keep the field from freezing.

CapnChkn · February 13, 2011, 02:46:27 PM

In the winter starting December of 2009, the temperatures here In Mboro froze the ground down to the pipes. The city main at the road broke on their side of the meter (Yay!) and the 1/4 acre pond we have froze to the point I could walk on it.

Last summer I lost the one hive I was trying to get into a hive body. After I opened the rotten one I discovered the craziest thing I ever saw, my first experience with SHB. Though I have seen photos of infestations that were worse, I wasn't prepared for what I discovered. All the comb had fallen, there was slimy brown honey all over, and it smelled sour.

If the beetles managed through near zero (-18 C) temperatures for a month, they would have to have flown up 600 or 700 miles (1000 Km) from warmer regions, or kept warm somehow.

ballardbeekeeper · February 15, 2011, 06:49:37 PM

I've just put fresh traps into my hives, the first of the year. I'll be checking regularly to see how soon I start catching SBH again. I doubt that overwintering SBH inside a hive will have perished due to cold - if the hive can keep bees warm, I expect it'll keep SBH warm too.