Ok....I'm committed....no, no...not to "the home" but to keeping bees!

[Intheswamp]

Just a little note here (yeah, right...like short notes come out from Intheswamp....NOT!)  Anyhow....

There's an older gentleman locally that has raised bees for years.  He has around 35 hives at his house and I'm not sure how many scattered at friends and families houses.  I bought some (very tasty) honey from him a few weeks ago which was somewhat of the catalyst that pushed me over the edge in getting interested in bees.  

Well, this afternoon at work I called him and asked if I could come out and talk with him about starting some hives of my own.  He suggested that I wait until February or March to get started, rather than starting out keeping bees over the winter.  We talked for probably an hour and a half about keeping bees.  He suggested a few things, I told him some of what I was considering.  He uses no chemicals or pesticides and stated he has no major problem with mites or beetles.  He agreed that the hives need to be in the full sun.  He also believes in using foundation.  After talking for a while he looked at me and told me he would sell me a couple of hives.  His are standard deep hives, fixed-screen bottom boards.  Nothing extravagant, but definitely utilitarian, clean, and solid.  I finally asked him if he wanted to walk out and look at the bees.  I was thinking a casual walk around looking at the hives and the bees going in and out.  Nah...

When he grabbed a couple of veils and handed one to me I knew we were going to look at more than the outside.  :-D   I put a hat and veil on...he didn't worry with one.  We both had short sleeved shirts on and blue jeans.  He loaded up some wood pellets and lit them with a propane torch and off we went on his gator.  The first stop was a single deep hive.  He simply sat the smoker beside the hive and proceeded to take the top and then the inner cover off.  WOW!!!!!!!!  BEES!!!!!!!!!!!!  EXTREMELY COOL!!!!!

The beek moved with a smoothness and gentleness that can only come from years of experience!!!  He pulled frame after frame out of the hive...thick with bees...brood....eggs....larva....honey (capped and uncapped)....we even got to see the queen!!!!  And all this was seen not much more than a foot in front of my face!  These were very calm bees, he handled them without gloves or veil.  He showed me how he could wave his hand over the bees on the frame and they wouldn't pay him any attention...but he pointed out not to do that with "those bees that are looking at you"....I took that to mean there were a few that were "on alert".  We probably removed and looked at five or six of the hives in the 10-frame hive.  It was amazing to me.  He moved slowly and surely, not rushing and making sure the proper space was there when he started to reinsert a frame.

I noted a couple of small black ants around the upper edge of the deep hive box when he opened it.  I saw no other insects other than those ants and the bees.  It was a very clean, neat hive.  I remarked to him how clean and neat and healthy looking the hive was and he said all his hives were like that (I could tell he takes pride in his work).  He went on to state that this was a swarm that he caught this past spring, a fairly young hive I guess.  After we closed the hive back up we road on down his line looking at the different hives, though we didn't open anymore up.  

To make a long story short I bought the hive we inspected and another one as yet unpicked.  The other's that I have to pick from each have one super on top of them.  He said he'd make the same deal to me for it as he did for the first single deep hive...all I had to do was get him a medium super and 10 frames to replace the one on top of the deep.  Nice deal.  He's going to help me put together some supers and frames when I get them.  To top the deal off he's going to over-winter the hives for me if I want him to...and if something happens to a hive I can pick another one.  Seems mighty fair to me!

So, I don't even own a hive tool but suddenly I own two hives.  Looks like I need to be ordering some protective gear, smoker, hive tool, etc.,...then worry about getting the woodenware. He also said some of the big suppliers haul orders down to the state meeting in October which cuts out freight...I may wait and get my extra supers and frames and stuff then.

BTW, I had a nice evening.  ;)
Ed

PS...Now I've got to decide whether to let him keep them for me over the winter.

[Brian D. Bray]

Having a mentor close at hand is probably the most valuable tool a beginning beekeeper can have.  I spent 6 1/2 years learning from my mentor and it put me so far ahead of trying to do from books or from conflicting advice from various beekeepers.  Knowing the value of a good mentor, I try to be the same.  But even at that there were somethings I had to unlearn, every beekeeper has a topic they are set in stone on.  That tendency is what perpetuates bad practices.  But it is human behavior, a mentor, after all, is a guide into a new world, it is the students responsibility to question, choose between options, and continue to gain knowledge.

I kept bees for 45 years before I bought any books on the subject.  I now own ABC & XYZ of Beekeeping, The Hive and The Honey Bee, Beekeeping for Dummies, and Lessons in Beekeeping.  Of the 4, Dummies is the worst, but each contains fallacies that can quickly lead a beginner beekeeper astray, which is one reason a mentor is so important.

My advice, milk this guy for every drop of knowledge he's willing to impart.  Volunteer to help him with his bees, ask lots of questions, ask him to help you with yours.  When you have several bits of information try to extrapolate those into even more information via contemplation and more questions.  Then, Never, Ever, decide you know enough to be a satisfactory beekeeper.  That is when you will cease to be a good beekeeper and become a poor one.

I'm still learning after 50+ years in the hobby.  I'm currently mentoring 5 different beginner beekeepers, sometimes the bevy of question they ask lead to another AAH HA moment when something clicks and I have a deeper insight into what goes on in a hive.  Even a glimmer is an addition to the knowledge I had a gateway to more knowledge.

Buy the hives, let him overwinter them for you, it will put you in a better position to be a successful beekeeper come spring.  In the meantime, dog his steps as much as he will allow.

[Intheswamp]

Mr. Brian, I appreciate that post.  Very good advice.  The beek mentioned that he had a few more medium and I off-handedly mentioned that I'd like to come and watch/help if I could.  I'll be touching base with him this coming week...I've already told him I can be aggravating with my questions...I think he liked that.  When we talked I told him upfront that the little I knew about keeping bees was what I had read and that I knew just about enough to be dangerous.  I have read a lot and I think he was pleased that he could carry on a decent bee oriented conversation with me without having to give me definitions of things every few minutes.  I could tell he enjoyed talking about the bees and explaining things to me.  In the inspection we did he pointed out lots of details in the combs and hive.  His (mine now :) ) queen was marked, but she was an elusive royal lady and seemed to move beneath her workers...kind of just flowing along.  I could tell he was enjoying working the hive and he used a very skilled, soft hand with them...I was impressed!

Set in stone....  Well, I mentioned my thoughts about going foundationless and he recommended against it.  He personally uses wax foundations and doesn't like plastic foundation.  His arguments were basically the guidance and strength issues for the comb.  He said that if he had to do it over again he would have standardized with medium supers and frames.  But, when I mentioned something about working towards 8-frame setups he didn't seem to like the idea. :)  We'll see...

I hope to get to know him much better.  I noticed when I pulled up this last time that he had some HF antennas (ham).  When he opened the door I asked him if he was a ham...he was and we exchanged callsigns. :)  We talked everything from bees to ham radio to bluebirds and snakes.  It was a good visit all the way around. 

I sure want to get the bees here, but you're right that I should let him over-winter them for me...but it's just now the beginning of summer!!!   :(  I know, I know...I'll live. ;)

Thanks for the encouragement and advice...all good!
Ed

[Brian D. Bray]

I like the fact that ham's, like beekeepers, are a different breed.  One of the first things that struck me when I got my ticket was that every ham used their call like it was their last name.

Sounds like you're off to a good start.

Hi, I'm Brian AE7LV  (AE and VE).

[Intheswamp]

I've been trying to figure out where to put my beeyard.  Below is a picture of the property that I'm going to have the bees on.  There are a few little red squares where I'm considering putting the hives.  The one to the west is questionable because of the shade factor over in the middle afternoon.  The others will get sun pretty much all day long.  The property is terraced downward to the north with three large terraces...the red line basically denotes part of the top terrace and anything north of that line isn't or is barely visible from the highway.  I'm not sure how important it would be to keep the bees out of sight...this is a somewhat busy state highway.  I'm thinking "out of sight...out of mind" in regards to folks passing by.  But, the most eastward square is my preferred spot and it would be very visible.  The yellow circle to the west of that square is my grandchildrens swing set...about 100' away.

The blue line in the picture is a walking trail that my mother-in-law uses to walk her dog (my wife walks it often, too)...I'm thinking I should put the hives back away from this area.  The red box closest to the blue line would be about 30' from the nearest edge of the walking trail.

Here's a rundown on the four locations noted:
#1 - Level ground coming from house, easily accessible.  Full sun all day.  Visible to traffic going by.
#2 - Easily accessible.  Very early morning sun may be blocked in winter. 30' from walking trail.  Not visible to traffic.
#3 - Somewhat more remote, but still easy access.  Shade, though, from probably 1-2pm on into the afternoon.  Not visible by traffic.  Further away from walking traffic.
#4 - The most remote location.  Less likely to be visited on the spur of the moment.  Full sun most of the day.  Out of sight of traffic.  

Whatcha think?

Thanks!
Ed

ETA:  I'm also agonizing over what type of protective clothing to get.  Possibly some cut-outs in the future but mostly just existing hive work and maybe a swarm if I get lucky somewhere this spring. ;)

[Intheswamp]

I like the fact that ham's, like beekeepers, are a different breed.  One of the first things that struck me when I got my ticket was that every ham used their call like it was their last name.

Sounds like you're off to a good start.

Hi, I'm Brian AE7LV  (AE and VE).

Howdy, name's Ed KF4KRV.

Made it to Gen class with 13wpm requirement.  Never worked voice...qrp and cw. ;)

73,
Ed

[Brian D. Bray]

All are good choices but if it were me I'd go for either 2 or 4, depending on how for you like to walk.  For me with weak wheels and a cane 2 would be the best option.  If I were younger, and healthier, I would have gone for 4.

[Intheswamp]

All are good choices but if it were me I'd go for either 2 or 4, depending on how for you like to walk.  For me with weak wheels and a cane 2 would be the best option.  If I were younger, and healthier, I would have gone for 4.

Is #1 less desirable because of it's visibility to traffic or proximity to swing set?  I like to do a little "walk-round" before I go to work...check out the tomato plants, wood pile, etc.,.  #2 would be walked by daily but #4 would probably not be seen closely each day...especially during rainy/wet weather.  #2 might be the better option...or maybe kick it over to the top of the next (lower) terrace to get it further away from the walking trail.

Ed

[Riggs]

Intheswamp, I'd give nearly anything to have someone close to learn from, but there is not really anyone close to me. Instead I come here and read and listen to every word people like Mr. Bray and several others have to say. It won't take you long to tell the good sound advice from the others.
Get your gear, become familiar with it and you'll be ready to go come spring. I waited three years, reading and researching everything I could before making the plunge. I still get super excited when I'm checking my bees, and I hope I always do.
My 86 year old grandfather wants to go with me every time I check them, and I can't wait until my children are old enough to understand it.
Good Luck to you and have fun.

:)

[Intheswamp]

Riggs, I feel mighty blessed to have this older beek so close to me.  He's already told me that when I get my supers and frames to bring them over and he'll help me put them together.  The guys here on the forum like Mr. Bray and others are indeed treasures for us newbies.

I hear you on the excitement part!!!  Just doing that single hive inspection with the beek was exciting to me.  It really amazed me to be so close to those bees while checking their activity out.  It was incredible.  The more I study, the more interesting it is and the more I see there is to learn.  It's a somewhat simple hobby (man's been keeping bees for centuries) but yet it looks like the hobby could be as complex and involved as you want it to be.  I'm already thinking (dreaming?) of cut-outs and capturing swarms...nucs and splits....I guess I better get a couple of hives going on the property first before I plan too big, eh? :)

Wonderful that you've got your Grandfather doing hive inspections with you!!!  Is this the first time he's been associated with keeping honeybees?  I know what how you feel about getting your kids involved.  I'm at the grandkid stage of life with two little granddaughters....one 4 1/2 and the other going on 6 months.  I think I've caught a few looks of disapproval from their mother when I've mentioned having them around the bees.  We'll walk easy there and see how that works out.  Of course, the first big sting incident I have I might be putting up concertina wire to keep people away from the bees.   :shock:

Ed

[Intheswamp]

Well, I'm just kinda blowing and ah twisting in the wind right now...

Been trying to work up a shopping list.  I've got a grip on some of the tools and other gear but I'm having a problem deciding on woodenware.  Currently I"m trying to to decide between pine w/box joints or cypress with rabbet joints.  The cypress is roughly 25% more expensive but figuring on having these around for many years I don't mind a little more expense upfront if it will be worth it in the long run.  Basically I'm trying to decide on which one will give me the most utilitarian service over it's lifespan.

Box joints appear to be be stronger than rabbets, but rabbets present less end grain wood to the weather.  I'm going to attempt to seal the ends well so hopefully I want have to worry about that if I go with the box joints.  From other's responses it seems that it's a coin toss. 

Anybody want to comment on this?

Ed

[Old Blue]

Wow,  I'm green with envy.  I would love to have access to a beek with that type of experience and knowledge.  If I did I would be hanging out as much as I could without wearing out my welcome.  I would definately take him up on his offer to overwinter them for you.  I think you are going to be learning in months what it is taking me years to learn and I think you will be learning stuff that I will never learn.

You're a lucky man Ed.

Once again, thanks to all here who post and share your knowledge.  This has been my primary source of knowledge and experience.  SO, THANKS TO YOU ALL ! !

Old Blue

[Intheswamp]

Wow,  I'm green with envy.  I would love to have access to a beek with that type of experience and knowledge.  If I did I would be hanging out as much as I could without wearing out my welcome.  I would definately take him up on his offer to overwinter them for you.  I think you are going to be learning in months what it is taking me years to learn and I think you will be learning stuff that I will never learn.

You're a lucky man Ed.

Once again, thanks to all here who post and share your knowledge.  This has been my primary source of knowledge and experience.  SO, THANKS TO YOU ALL ! !

Old Blue

:)  Well, I don't believe in luck, but I do feel mighty blessed!   ;)

I think he's got the time, it's just myself working the time to be there.  I dropped by the other afternoon and brought him some fresh tomatoes...we sat around and drank a coke and talked bees and things.  Some interesting conversation.  He apparently works the bees mostly by himself and I think has for many years.  He has an 8' foot trailer that he pulls behind his gator that has what looks like a Harbor Freight boom mounted to the floor.  The boom has an electric winch on it and at the end of the cable there is a large clamp...when the clamp is placed around a hive he can simply press a button, lift the hive, swing the boom, and set the hive down on the trailer.  It looks like the setup will only lift a single deep hive box...but, that's enough!  He's built a solar wax melter that he's going to modify some more, does his own hive boxes out of 3/4" plywood, screened bottoms, etc.,.  What has impressed me greatly, though, is his soft touch with the bees...almost like I would imagine a famous surgeon's hands working.

Ed

[Kathyp]

i think i'd pick 3 or 4.  morning sun is great in winter as is a wind break.  i'd make my choice according to wind protection in winter.  you may not have a wind issue.

[stella]

I have no advice to offer here because Im a first year beekeeper but I just wanted to say...Nice thread! Love the camaraderie I see developing!

[Intheswamp]

I've walked the area for the bee yard several times and have about decided on it's placement.  Probably just south of #4 (measure back towards the house about the height of the numeral four.  Things that I've mentally noted for this spot:

Pros:

*This will put the yard between two terraces...away from the steep backside of the upper terrace and away from the standing water (when it rains) in front of the lower terrace.  This area between the two terraces has a slight grade to the north which should help water run-off and prevent water from standing around the hives.

*The area will receive good morning sun throughout the year.  It should receive direct sun pretty much all day long during the winter and up to around five o'clock in the summer.

*Good windbreak to the north and west and to the south for that matter being as the land rises to the south).

*Completely invisible to passing traffic.  In the "EAST" picture below, the trees just under the "Winter" sun are actually alongside the highway.

*A good distance from any activity area, but within fairly easy walking distance...though might get wet walking through tall grass in the early morning.

This area is a small section of a hayfield that's made up of weeds, wild blackberry, a few wildflowers, and bahia grass.  I'm seriously thinking of lightly discing it this fall and planting New Zealand clover with possibly a wildflower mix mixed in.  I'm not sure what to plant in regards to the wildflowers...nor the when....I need to study up some more. ;)   I've got four hills of vitex negundo planted and it's doing good...I hope to use these to propagate more.

Anyhow, I just thought I'd let ya'll know I've about got it figured out....the location, that is. ;)

Ed

[BlueBee]

When do the bees arrive?

[BlueBee]

Not sure how closely related Vitex Negundo and Vitex Agnus are, but I got V. Agnus here (Purple flowers, Hemp like leaves).  The Carpenter bees LOVE V. Agnus, if you want carpenter bees :-D 

I see an occasional honey bee on it, but it doesn't get a lot of attention here.  V. Agnus propagates readily with intermittent mist.  I like the Vitex, a nice looking summer shrub (dies back to the ground here).

[Intheswamp]

Morning BlueBee.  I can get the bees whenever I wish but the beek has suggested I wait until around February so that I don't have to carry them through the winter.  He's given me a 100% guarantee on receiving good hives come the first of the year.  The possible problems of overwintering and possible losses or ??? are his.

However :) ...I am itching (and haven't been stung) to get the bees over at my house.  I could be getting more hands-on experience, possibly start my bee venom therapy(OUCH!!!), etc., etc.,.  At the moment I'm not prepared to set the hives up.  The first thing is that I've got to mow the area.  I'd kind of like the hay mowed before I mow it with my lawnmower (we rent out the bulk of the hay fields and this area is a freebie for the guy).  This fall after the area is mowed well I want to lightly disc some strips and plant some clover and wildflower seeds...I'd rather do this before setting the hives up.

I've got my veils and the smoker and hive tool should be here Monday, so in regards to equipment I should be in good shape.

As for the vitex...  I'm under the impression that it is indeed the vitex negundo (hemp leaf imitator) that the honeybee prefers...maybe you have some snobbish bees that are holding out for orange blossoms???   :-D  I got my seedlings from an old beek.

Ed

[Intheswamp]

Bee yard location...

Well, I listed the "Pros" above but didn't list any "Cons".  I can't really think of many things bad about the location. 

Cons:
*It will be closer to the pine forest behind it (critters). 

*There are lots of deer that frequent that area (might impact clover/wildflower production(?))  I might make some irish spring hangers for them.  They come into the yard for that matter.<sigh>

*Being as the area is probably ~15 feet lower than the crest of the hill fog can hang around in the morning for a while.

In regards to the sunshine here are a couple of pictures showing the rough placements of sunrise and sunsets in regards to the location.  Also, you can see that the highway is out of sight.

Ed