Swarm Cells, Full Hive Bodies, and empty Honey Super . . . help needed!

[SarahM]

Thanks so much everyone for all of the great help and advice! It was really appreciated. And somewhat of a relief to have input from many different knowledgable beekeepers and to have different options of things that we could do/try. After reading your all's replies and lots of thinking, we ended up doing both what Ray and Brian suggested.

This morning, we manipulated the frames in the pattern that Brian mentioned in his post: MMPBBBPMMM. (When doing that manipulation, I did see a few frames that still had quite a few eggs on them . . . so the queen was still around at least three days ago.) Then, we did what Ray suggested with moving three of the hive body deep frames into the medium super on top. Hopefully that will help draw the bees up so they begin working that super. It was a rainy day today which kept the bees mostly 'indoors' so hopefully they were busy cleaning out cells and drawing out more comb!

So . . . now we wait and see what happens. I did notice last evening that there was a significant increase in bees hanging out outside of the hive entrance which from what I have read, is an indicator of an upcoming swarm. If the bees do end up swarming, I sure hope they decide to go to a place where we can see it and that is down low enough to reach so that we can capture it!

Now with all of this done, I do have a couple more questions . . . how long should we wait now before opening the hive back up to check and see if the medium is having its foundation drawn out and to see if we can then put the deep frames (in the medium super) back into their positions in the hive body deep? A week? At that time, should we check each hive body again to see if there are queen cells?

This has certainly been a learning experience so far with our first year of beekeeping! And I think we have a lot more learning to go before this season is over. Once again, thank you everyone for taking the time to reply and sharing such helpful advice!

[stella]

Looks like sarah and I have a similar issue.
This is an excellent thread with good advice!

[stella]

So Brian, how do I manipulate the frames for my 8 frame deeps?
Just forget about an extra misc frames on the ends?
I have been manipulating frames in the last month and moving the empty frames inward one frame as read here because they werent completely drawn out.
I am awaiting your thread on pollen bound hives because I think my hive has tons of pollen vs honey. The honey cells are such a small ratio around the brood frames. I am seeing them filling out the outer frames with more honey at this stage but I want them to have enough for winter.

You are all such lifesavers. Thanks!

[BrentX]

Brian and Ray, I was really impressed with the detailed and quality information in your posts.  That is what makes this forum a great place to be part of.

Sarah,  with the action taken your hive will likely be fine.  This time of year all my strong hives have bees lounging out side the entrance.  They are not looking to swarm, but are helping to regulate the temperature in the hive.  When the sun if full on the hive even more bees may congregate, then go back in the hive when it cools.

A strong hive like yours in my region will make significant progress drawing those frames in 7 to 10 days. 

[RayMarler]

Sarah,
I would check in on them in a week to see how they are doing. Once you get a couple medium combs that are mostly drawn then is the time to put the frames all back into their correctly sized boxes. This will give you medium frames drawn to act as guides and ladders and bait frames to get them to continue drawing and using that upper super.

[Brian D. Bray]

So Brian, how do I manipulate the frames for my 8 frame deeps?
Just forget about an extra misc frames on the ends?
I have been manipulating frames in the last month and moving the empty frames inward one frame as read here because they werent completely drawn out.
I am awaiting your thread on pollen bound hives because I think my hive has tons of pollen vs honey. The honey cells are such a small ratio around the brood frames. I am seeing them filling out the outer frames with more honey at this stage but I want them to have enough for winter.

You are all such lifesavers. Thanks!

The manipulation method is the same regardless of the depth of the box.  Using all mediums allows for easy manipulation and avoids having to resort to the technique Ray pointed out.  Back in the 1960's I knew a beekeeper who ran 3 deeps on his hives year around.  He always had 2-4 frames in the center of the 3rd box that had brood 1/2 way up the frame (plus the other 2 deeps) he pulled his honey bi-weekly, pulling and replacing the outer 3 frames on each side of the top box.  He never had to super and always had a good honey crop.  

Just one more example of more than one right way to do things.

The Pollen Bound Hive: http://forum.beemaster.com/index.php/topic,33822.0.html

[stella]

I really like the idea of 3 deeps! I think it would be a good fit for me and my hive.
Thanks Brian for taking the time to respond.

[Michael Bush]

>I'm an all medium, 8 frame, beek nerd who has been beekeeping for over 50 years, I must be a part of that 1%.  But really, I'm an 8 frame, all medium, foundationless beekeeper because my 50+ years of experience has shown me I get the best results from the bees, with the least amount of wear and tear on me than any other method.

Change the 50 to 37 and that would be my assessment.  I used deeps and shallows for 26 years.  I have never regretted changing to eight frame mediums.  It's not like I don't have anything to compare to.  I've done everything from 8, 10,12, 22, 33 frame boxes with everything from extra shallow, shallow, medium, deep and Dadant deep as well as DE hives.  I've settled on eight frame mediums as the best, not only for me but for overwintering and for production as well as ease of management.  I pretty much manage my hives by the box now rather than the frame.  I split by the box and can split a yard in very short order without pulling out a single frame.