Are 8 frame hives, foundationless frames etc. experimental?

[BjornBee]

And I recommend them to beginners to help them avoid decisions they will regret later.

Yep...I agree. Put all the marbles on the table. Let folks hear the good and bad of any issue. Let debate and discussion happen so beekeepers can make intelligent decisions.

Unfortunately, to many times, folks promote a particular style of beekeeping while only listing the positives as seen through their eyes, and through their philosophy. It happens all the time when someone asked about something such as a Warre hive, top entrances, smallcell, etc.

I get attacked all the time for my listing of both what I like and dislike on many topics. As example, the "Warre" page on my website. Seems nobody is allowed to say they dislike anything anymore, or even suggest the negatives to certain beekeeping style, without a group attacking you on some level.

A perfect example of this is the rebuttal to Jerry Hayes' previous writeup on Warre Hives. One of the bio guys wrote in defense of Warre hives (Sept 2011 - ABJ, page 817) with slanted promotion of Warre hives while attacking anyone not keeping Warre hives with words such as "regime", and "honey money". Of course in support of his position, he uses such words as "par excellence" and near natural beekeeping.

But that is the nature of folks today. MB comes out and list of positives to top entrances, and suggests he does this so others will not regret it later. But when someone else comes out with a list of negatives to top entrances, it is not the same. It is seen by a few as attacking. Why not see it as just offering both sides? How can it be seen as doing one a favor and saving them from regretful decisions on one hand, but folks want it to be hushed on the other hand when opposing views are offered.

Oh well.....such is a forum.

[buzzbee]

May I make a suggestion,
Every new thread that comes to the forum need not go directly to a peeing match. If you want to have a discussion fine,but if people need to see just how far they can push things throwing out words meant to provoke others,they should be prepared to take it somewhere else.And that may not be by choice.
I see a lot of this cranking up in different threads and people  jumping from one thread to another to keep the heat up.
Don't get sucked in,it will not turn out well.
Have debate,but keep it polite.If you can't it is no longer a debate. Keep the tone civil and don't feel the need to nit pic evry thread to death.

[iddee]

Micheal, if you feel that I used the wrong word, I apologize for it. It seems to mean something different to you than it does to me. I would change it if I knew a better one, but what I feel the word means, it fits. As stated twice before, nothing negative was meant. I also feel that I extolled on your virtues enough in prior posts to convince most anyone that there was no negatives there.

Peace

[Michael Bush]

>Micheal, if you feel that I used the wrong word, I apologize for it.

No need to apologize.  I just wanted to point out that it is not a recent experiment, but rather historically proven techniques.

> It seems to mean something different to you than it does to me. I would change it if I knew a better one, but what I feel the word means, it fits. As stated twice before, nothing negative was meant. I also feel that I extolled on your virtues enough in prior posts to convince most anyone that there was no negatives there.

I took no offense.  I didn't think it was an attack, I just wanted to clear it up.  I apologize if it came off that I was offended.  That was not my intent.

[Tommyt]

Good to see 2 men agree, too each others view "Plain olé discussing"
The entire thing IMHO was neither of you but others interpretation
One of many reasons I respect you both

Tommyt

[rail]

8 Frame Foundationless:

Warre' peoples hive; 8 frame, foundationless, same size hardware and keeping the nest in a tight cluster in colder regions. Today we even share some of the same principles; quilt tops for Langstroth hives (ones sold with foam in the inner cover) or the old timer that stuffed leaves in a burlap sack, placed it over the inner cover with a hive body and outer cover.

[buzzbee]

I think unconventional would be a better word.

[Shanevrr]

michael, have you hired someone to type for you yet......i cant think of the word...... :shock: