Spring Feeding

[buzzbee]

He advocated proper feeding in fall and let wintering bees rest,

[T Beek]

Where's our chief electric beek (CEB) when we need him, Mr Finski  :)  Finski we miss you!

Having done a good bit of experimenting and observing with electric heat, I don't agree with everything here, but if you're worried about stimulating the bees into thinking it's not winter, then does adding syrup make any sense?  What does syrup normally mean in nature?  The trees are blooming and its spring!  Time to go out and multiply.  :) 

If the bees over brood and we get another cold snap (very likely), what's more likely to protect all that brood from getting chilled?  Syrup or heat?

What I'm surprised to hear is that some of Bush's heated hives didn't make it.  I've never had a heated hive die so I would be curious to hear the story behind his losses?

I guess my personal dilemma with artificial heating concerns the "if the bees over brood" part.  Artificial heating would in fact be the cause of such over brooding, no?  I don't mean to cause friction .....  but that remains my concern and likely is the reason for 'my' philosophy of keeping bees.....that and the reality that bees have been doing well without our assistance for a lot longer than with it... ;).......

That all said; it doesn't mean I'm not interested or intrigued by these methods...because I am.. 8-)

[Bush_84]

It should be noted that I added heat at the end of February.  Only my nucs had heat tape on them all winter.  I won't get a good idea about what happened until I get a good chance to look and I haven't had a day off in forever.  Later today I'll have a chance to look.  My gut tells me that they starved despite dry sugar.  I thought dry sugar would keep them safe from that but maybe not. 

[BlueBee]

Bush, it will be interesting to hear a report on your nucs and rather they over brooded in the winter.

Electric heat is just a tool in my toolbox that I use in certain circumstances.  I know it's not for everybody.  The fear of stimulating the bees into over brooding in winter seems to be wide spread among beeks.  I wonder where that myth comes from? :idunno:   After all how many folks have actually done it?  Me, Bush, and who?

I have not seen the heat over stimulating the bees in mid winter myself.  I was actually hoping for such stimulation when I first started out as a way to boost up small fall nucs but at least in my bee yard it takes more than heat to stimulate the bees.  Even the Italians didn't brood up.  The heat only enables them to build up faster when the other stimuli (day light, willow pollen, etc) trigger them to ramp up brooding; at least that's been my experience.  There are numerous other problems that can occur with electric heat, but over brooding in winter hasn't been one I've seen.

[Bush_84]

Well got a chance to peek.  The nuc that died just didn't have enough numbers.  Not enough bees and I think they just froze.  I didn't see any heads down in cells. 

My two production hives both had two similar situations.  Dysentery and heads in cells.  No significant brood in any combs I could see.  One of the dead hives actually had a couple of honey combs on the other side of the hive.  Dang.  They were all in contact with dry sugar.  Also interestingly the two dead hives both had a light bulb under them as a heat source.  The production hive and the nuc both have heat tape.  Also one hive had a tight cluster and the other seemed to be maybe be divided. 

One word on heat.  My nucs need heat.  Need.  I don't live in Iowa or Nebraska.  I live in minnesota.  I know people who have lived in Maine along the Canadian border who describe their winters as mild.  I've lived in Chicago.  It is mild there.  The more I keep bees the more I desire to see how the Canadians do it.  Everybody talks about bees getting to warm and getting to active.  Ok maybe if you get temps in the 30s.  We don't.  We get multiple days in a row with a high of 0.  Whenever I try to winter a nuc I will do so with heat unless they are in an insulated shed or on top of another hive. 

Since the original topic was about feeding I'll ask a feeding question.  Is it safe to use sugar soiled with bee feces?  One hive had dysentery worse than the other and I have a fair amount of sugar stained with feces.  I wasn't sure if boiling the stuff would make it safe or not.  Will be easy to dump if it's not safe.  Also I replaced the jar feeders today.  Each hive took down an inch or two from each jar feeder.  That sound normal?

[GSF]

Bush84, I can't give you the answer concerning bees. With all the critters I've ever raised the golden rule was; don't let them live in crap. Too many parasites & diseases to be found. If you find crap in any water - pour it out, clean and refill. In the animal kingdom part of the life cycle of parasites is to be pass out through feces as eggs just to be taken up again through a cut or being ate(swallowed) after hatching. I'd strongly recommend not feeding it to them based on my experience with other animals.

[T Beek]

I've met several and still know a few Canadian BEEKS since the 70's.  Never met any that used artificial heat.  The only thing I've found in common is top entrances, every canadian Beek I've ever met uses them.  That and placing entrances on the LONG side instead of the SHORT side.  Not all Canadians... but Never met anyone 'other' than Canadians doing that.

The most common reasons bees don't survive winter in 'my' chosen order  ;) 

1. Queen issues  2.  Feed stores issues  3.  Weather issues  4.  Disease and parasites  5.  Bad Beekeeping (the hardest one to come to terms with in many cases).

"different strokes for different folks"

[buzzbee]

Whats the thinking behind the opening on the long side? Reduced draft possibly?

[T Beek]

Whats the thinking behind the opening on the long side? Reduced draft possibly?

Easier access from behind to pull frames.  Its the only reason I'm aware of....... :-\

[Bush_84]

Whats the thinking behind the opening on the long side? Reduced draft possibly?

It's something warre users do actually.  They claim it decreases drafts in the hive. 

[T Beek]

A larger opening 'decreasing' drafts?  Seems illogical.   :-\

[Bush_84]

A larger opening 'decreasing' drafts?  Seems illogical.   :-\

You could put in a reducer if you were concerned.  It's more so about comb orientation.  A breeze can go through and run right down all the combs. But fit the combs are perpendicular to the entrance it hits the comb and stops the draft.  It's just what I've read.  Warre hives are square and can be turned for a winter and summer orientation.

[T Beek]

Now that makes sense.....Thanks!

[Bush_84]

So here's another question about feeding.  Things have been warm and I have been replacing my inverted jars whenever possible.  Today I have all day off and I have the next two days off as well.  I don't believe I have much going on and could replace the inverted jars as often as needed.  How long do you suppose that syrup stays warm enough to consume?

[T Beek]

It should stay warm enough to last the day...with help from your bees... ;).  I'd think a pint a day would indicate a hungry hive, any more than that would get cold before they consumed it with current temps.

[tjc1]

Is it a bad idea to put syrup on if there is a spate of warm weather and they will take it, and stop if there is another cold spell? Seems I've read somewhere that once you begin feeding syrup in the spring, you should not stop until nectar is available and coming in. Any thoughts?

[T Beek]

Its been my own experience that once began....DON"T stop feeding until a natural flow is on.

[GSF]

The other thing to worry about (feeding everyday with small scale apiary) is them backfilling the cells and then having a premature swarm take place.

[T Beek]

The other thing to worry about (feeding everyday with small scale apiary) is them backfilling the cells and then having a premature swarm take place.

So true - I forget where some of you folks are posting from, sorry.  I can only base the advise I provide on my own region.......Once 'syup' feeding begins....don't stop until the first flow.........providing a pint of warm syrup per day won't cause backfilling because the bees will be consuming the majority.


We still have over 3 feet of snow and predicted temps reaching near zero for a few more days up here - chances are good my bees are still in cluster fro another few weeks...... :)

[Bush_84]

I'm building/testing out a feeding box.  The purpose is to basically enclose the jar and add some sort of heat source inside the box.  That'll allow me to not have to exchange out jars while it's still cold.  Thoughts?