What do I do with laying worker hive

paulsnapp · April 21, 2014, 08:57:06 PM

I installed a new package in a new hive on April 1, 2014. Bees released queen from the queen cage. Pulled out two frames with wax but no eggs and no queen sighting on April 8.
The bees had pulled out three frames and filled two frames with pollen and honey. No queen sighting and no eggs. Hive very loud buzzing. On April 13 still loud, built 4 queen cells and now multiple eggs in cells. Put in new queen on April 14 but did not pull cork. April 17 pulled cork from candy end of cage. Workers were tending queen through cage and not biting it. Noticed multiple eggs in burr comb built next to queen cage. Removed burr comb. April 20 bees had eaten all candy and were in cage with queen tending her. I turned cage upside down and queen walked out into hive. Again more burr comp with multiple eggs in cells.

My guess is that this hive will not make it. I have another package coming in a couple of weeks. What do I do with the bees currently in this hive? If I remove them all from the hive, do I just install the new package in this hive with the frames pulled out by the previous package? These frames have pollen, honey and cells with multiple eggs in the cells. Nothing capped and no larve. Or do I install new frames with new foundation? Thanks for any and all advice!

asprince · April 21, 2014, 09:03:06 PM

Give them another week before doing anything.

Steve

BTW - go to your profile and add your location.

Vance G · April 21, 2014, 11:07:19 PM

Your new queen will probably be killed by a laying worker but that deal Is done. I would leave them alone as suggested. Start your package In other equipment. In a week go in to the troubled colony and see if your new queen is laying or hopefully find her. If she is alive and working great. If you find the carcass or still multiple eggs in lots of cells and no sight of good egg placement in cells, shake out the egg layer colony ten yards away and bag the equipment to keep the shb and wax moths out. The orphan bees will go beg entrance in the packages hive. The laying workers will die in the grass hopefully. Your package will get a big boost in numbers. Wait until your new package queen has been laying for a couple weeks before filling the drawn frames in around what the package has drawn.

capt44 · April 22, 2014, 12:27:33 AM

I would also wait a couple of days and look for single eggs in cells.
When you do you'll know the queen is alive.
Catch her if possible and cage her.
I would take the hive 100 yards away and shake and brush all the bees off the frames putting them in a trash bag to keep the bees off them.
Go back to the orginal hive location and put the frames back in the box.
There will be bees waiting on you, those are the forger bees.
Release the Queen into the hive and put the top on.
The laying worker will be out in the grass wondering what happened.
Your hive should return to normal shortly.

sc-bee · April 22, 2014, 12:40:22 AM

You mention multiple eggs but I don't see a reference as too placement. Are they stuck to the sides of the cells or are they down deep. You are aware a new queen may lay multiple eggs in a cell until she gets regulated?

Kathyp · April 22, 2014, 01:06:22 AM

you shouldn't have laying workers in there with a queen. i think sc-bee has it. wait. check again in a few days.

paulsnapp · April 22, 2014, 06:08:38 AM

The cells with multiple eggs have the eggs scattered all around. They are on the sides and scattered around the bottom of the cells. If I shake out the bees 100 yards away and install the new package, do I remove and disgard the frames that have drawn wax, pollen, honey and worker bee eggs and replace with new foundation or do I let the new package of bees have them as is?

RHBee · April 22, 2014, 06:11:06 AM

In my experience, the proof positive indicator of laying worker is not just multiple eggs but multiple eggs and eggs improperly placed. Multiple eggs stuck to the sides of the cells = laying worker, multiple eggs placed at the bottom center of the cell = new queen who hasn't gotten regulated yet. The abdomen of a laying worker is shorter than a queens so she just can't reach.
What are you seeing?

paulsnapp · April 22, 2014, 10:18:38 AM

The cells are about half drawn out. Eggs are scattered on bottom, not centered, or stuck to side. Eggs are not hatching. No larve and nothing capped. My second hive installed the same day as this one on April 1st has eggs, open cells with larve and capped brood cells on three of the ten frames.

sc-bee · April 22, 2014, 11:07:32 AM

The queen will lay where she can if cells are half drawn out. If the cells are not drawn deep enough and she has no other place, at times, she will attempt to lay in them . An egg should hatch and become larvae of some sort regardless of what kind of egg...... worker or drone. How long have you seen eggs in this hive? It should take 3-4 days to hatch 9-10 days to cap. Is this hive just lagging behind the other? It still may have a queen but a bad queen.....? You installed originally on April 1 and added new queen April 17?

Give them some time to sort it out. What do you have to lose? Add a frame of brood with eggs from the other hive, if it won't set it back too far. The queen lays over a thousand eggs a day... it should not hurt the other hive if you have enough drawn comb in it to spare. Others may weigh in on this differently.

Shaking a laying worker is a shot in the dark but sometimes works but that should have been the attempt before you added the new queen. Having only one other hive for the shaken bees to return to, if you pick the parent colony up, may be a problem. I am not sure it would not cause problems with the field force trying to enter the other hive.... fighting etc? I am saying up front I have never had to encounter this. Maybe someone else can weigh in. As far as using the empty comb for the new package, I see no problem.

Still give it a little more time if you can. You just added the second queen 5 days ago...... IMHO.......