Russian package install question

richter1978 · April 21, 2014, 11:18:17 PM

Put in two, three pound packages with marked Russian queens. One package was fairly defensive and had one bee stinging the screen on the queen cage, other bees were adhering to the cage, hard to move them to see the queen. The other package wasn't defensive at all and the adhering bees on the cage were easy to move aside to see the queen. My question or concern is that the defensive one may have a loose queen. I don't know if the package bees are Russian or just the queen, I don't want to lose the Russian to a loose Italian. I already pulled the cork on the candy before I even thought about it.

What would you do? Go back in? Any thoughts will be appreciated.

10framer · April 21, 2014, 11:53:58 PM

how long ago did you do all this?

richter1978 · April 22, 2014, 12:14:10 AM

About 5:30 pm today 4/21.

capt44 · April 22, 2014, 12:18:20 AM

I'd check them again tomorrow and if they are still fighting the wire then don't release her yet.
Try smearing alittle honey on the wire of the cage, just a small amount.
They don't like that gal for some reason.

10framer · April 22, 2014, 12:27:06 AM

they shouldn't get through the candy for a couple of days. i probably wouldn't worry about it but if it will make you feel better go back in tomorrow and see how they are acting toward the queen. set the cage on top of the frames screen side up and watch for a couple of minutes. if there is a different queen running around what would your plan be?

richter1978 · April 22, 2014, 09:23:56 AM

Thank you both for the help. 10framer, my plan would be to remove the loose queen and introduce here into my queenless top-bar. The Russian hives are for my two little girls. I'll check them out shortly.

10framer · April 22, 2014, 10:23:12 AM

it will most likely be hard to find her without shaking the bees out.

richter1978 · April 22, 2014, 05:58:14 PM

I got in there this morning and it had calmed down a good bit. The bees were still thickly covering the cage and hard to remove, but they weren't defensive and they were nasanoving on the cage when I set it on the top-bars. I'm gonna go with it and see. Thanks again for the help. Did not think about the pain it would be to find the loose one.

Joe D · April 22, 2014, 10:51:35 PM

If there is a loose queen in the hive, you could leave here there and put the Russian queen in the TBH. Good luck to you and your bees

Joe D

drlonzo · April 22, 2014, 11:19:48 PM

The bigger chance is that you have been given Italian bees with a Russian queen. Standard practice. However something that anyone who is working with Russians should know is that the queen's scent (pharamones) are totally diff then Italians. It is reccomended to keep the cork in the cage for about 5 days while in the hive, then remove and allow the workers to release the queen in the normal way. It takes the extra time to get them used to the new scent according to the ARS Bee lab.

sc-bee · April 23, 2014, 06:23:17 AM

Quote from: drlonzo on April 22, 2014, 11:19:48 PMIt is reccomended to keep the cork in the cage for about 5 days while in the hive, then remove and allow the workers to release the queen in the normal way.

I too was told not to pull the cork until after the 5th day.

buzzbee · April 23, 2014, 09:16:41 PM

My experience was the italians were slower to accept the Russians too. My Russian queened hives also had a lot more "attitude" when full strength. They may or may not always be the case.

richter1978 · April 29, 2014, 08:33:57 AM

Quote from: drlonzo on April 22, 2014, 11:19:48 PM
The bigger chance is that you have been given Italian bees with a Russian queen. Standard practice. However something that anyone who is working with Russians should know is that the queen's scent (pharamones) are totally diff then Italians. It is reccomended to keep the cork in the cage for about 5 days while in the hive, then remove and allow the workers to release the queen in the normal way. It takes the extra time to get them used to the new scent according to the ARS Bee lab.

And now, I am aware of this... A little too late, shes gone. Its funny, the queen in the other package looks more Italian and was accepted.
I've ordered a replacement. What about using a push in intro cage on emerging brood, or am I making it too complicated. I wanted to give them a boost with some brood since it will be a total of 2.5 weeks queenless. Thanks again!

drlonzo · May 01, 2014, 08:19:36 AM

If you are going to give them brood from another hive, you need to decide if you want them to raise a new queen or not first. If so make sure you give them brood from the Russian hive that is open and very young as in eggs and very young larva. This will help keep them from developing laying workers also. Now if you don't want them to raise a new queen, you will need to make sure that the frame of brood you give to them is older larva that cannot be turned into queens but still has time to keep the nurse bees busy and the pharamones to keep the workers from developing into laying workers.