banning beehives in our township

iddee · July 27, 2015, 02:18:29 PM

If I were the OP, I would print MB's reply and carry it to the meeting. That is as perfect an explanation as I have seen. Then I would ask them if they wanted the bees in town manageable, or unmanageable.

chux · July 27, 2015, 03:50:25 PM

Seems to me that most areas do not have the full population of native pollinators, including honey bees, that they can support. From what I have read, it doesn't seem to be a lack of food, and too much competition, that has caused a lower number of colonies. It seems to be disease. If a town doesn't allow hives at all, they will still have bees. Valid point. But they will not have as many bees. There could be one colony in the old tree on the corner of my block. That is what nature put there. My new hive doubles the number of colonies. Whether my bees are there or not, nature has the same number of colonies in the area. But there is also the "danger" that my girls swarm. If so, I have added to what was there naturally on two counts.

I agree that bees will be present naturally. But we do add to the number of bees in an area when we bring a managed colony in. No getting around that. So what? I've got nine colonies in my back yard right now. That is in addition to the "wild" colonies in the area. I've had bees back there for three years. My young children play back there all summer, and haven't been stung once.

BeeMaster2 · July 27, 2015, 04:57:26 PM

I run from 8 to. 16 hives in my back yard. My 2 grand daughters played back there, barefoot, with them since 2010. Only one has ever been stung and that was when she stuck her head right next to the observation hive while we were working on it. She came up real fast and scared one bee.
Jim

Michael Bush · July 28, 2015, 11:26:23 AM

>Then I would ask them if they wanted the bees in town manageable, or unmanageable.

And that is what they are really deciding... even if they don't know it.

Eric Bosworth · July 28, 2015, 11:30:38 AM

Quote from: Michael Bush on July 28, 2015, 11:26:23 AM
>Then I would ask them if they wanted the bees in town manageable, or unmanageable.

And that is what they are really deciding... even if they don't know it.

It all goes back to my first post on this. If it is that easy to ban honey bees then it should be just as easy to ban horse flies, deer flies, black flies, wasps, hornets, and yellow jackets.

Michael Bush · July 28, 2015, 12:10:47 PM

When I was growing up I knew of no managed bee hives in town, but I knew of two or three bee colonies. I got stung regularly as I ran barefoot all the time and the bees were working the clover or the dandelions. We didn't have any hives. My kids mostly never got stung except the one son who never did watch where he was going and he would step on one now and again. Now there are four grand kids living int he house and one has been stung by a paper wasp and one was stung once by a bee that crawled up his sleeve and he pinched it when he panicked. My point is that they get stung less than I did, probably because they are aware of bees. I was not that aware...

What people imagine bees to be is so far from what they really are... they have trouble realizing that bees do not go out every morning looking for someone to sting...

Eric Bosworth · July 28, 2015, 02:03:20 PM

Quote from: Michael Bush on July 28, 2015, 12:10:47 PM
What people imagine bees to be is so far from what they really are... they have trouble realizing that bees do not go out every morning looking for someone to sting...

Truer words have not been spoken.

chux · July 28, 2015, 02:49:33 PM

The other day I went to help a commercial beek work through some hives. There were about 40 hives in this out-yard. Bees flying everywhere. Even before starting to work the hives, there were a handful of bees that were a distance from the yard, and bumping veils. After working the hives, we went to the other side of the field hunting for some melons. Came back 30 minutes later, and a few hundred yards from the yard, I got stung. One lesson I have learned, and tell folks, is that when you are dealing with hundreds of thousands of anything, there are always going to be a few who have had a bad day.

Yes, there are going to be bees and other stinging insects in the town. If you bring in hives, you are increasing the number of bees. This is a valid concern, within reason. If my son were severely allergic, I would not have nine hives in my yard. I would not want my neighbor to have 15 hives in his yard, 200 feet from my house. Why? Because there will always be that one or two mean bees out of every 50,000. And, the more bees in a yard of clover, the more chance there is that you accidentally step on one barefoot, or grab a drink off the swing, and get a sting in the finger. It probably won't happen, and we can take precautions to make it much less likely, but it is still more likely when you increase the number of bees in the area.

I see both sides of the argument. I believe it is best handled at the local level, as in across the yard. Talk to your neighbors. Educate them on the facts of the gentleness of the bee, and the rarity of a sting. Bee sure that folks know about the proper use of an Epi pen. Try to be sensitive to their feelings and concerns. If you have to, find another location for your hives. The location of your hive isn't worth stirring up anger and hard feelings in the neighborhood.

BeeMaster2 · July 29, 2015, 01:02:40 AM

Chug,
So you are saying that if my neighbor is afraid of bees, then I cannot have them. I thought that I owned this land that I live on not my neighbor. I have a neighbor that went berserk on me when I was planning on getting bees. He was fanatical and threatened to kill me if his wife got stung.
Trying to be nice, I told him that I would not put them in my yard. 2 days later he went on another rant.
After that all bets were off and I keep as many bees as allowed in my yard.
Jim

chux · July 29, 2015, 10:01:32 AM

So you are saying that if my neighbor is afraid of bees, then I cannot have them.
>No. There are many more variables to consider, and more options than you are setting up. If you "can't" have bees on your property, you could have bees on a different property. As to whether you "should" have bees on your property...The argument that we all make that it is our property and we should be able to do whatever we want on it, doesn't stand up. Set up a scenario. You move into a neighborhood and decide that you want bees on your property. You set up an apiary with 120 hives, 200 yards from your neighbor's house. It is your property. You should be able to do what you want on it. Your new neighbors have been in their house for ten years. They are all severely allergic to bees. Having 120 hives 200 yards from your house will greatly increase the danger that someone will be stung. In fact, I say they will be stung at some point over the course of future years. You cannot have that many thousands of bees in a tight area, and not expect one to bee mean every now and then. You decide to go ahead with your new apiary because it is your property. Do they not deserve any consideration? Do they not have rights on their property too? Consider an oak tree on the property line. The oak has been growing in your yard for 200 years, but now the branches are hanging out over your neighbor's house. During an ice storm (if you lived farther north), the branches of that oak are in danger of falling through your neighbor's roof and into his daughter's bedroom. He wants to remove the possibly fatal branch from his property, but you know that if he cuts the branch, it will kill your tree. Who gets to exercise their freedoms here? If your right to have a shade tree in the yard more important than his right to protect his family and property?

I know this scenario is ridiculous, but what I am trying to show is that we are talking about drawing a line. At some point, there needs to be protection from idiots on both sides of the debate. It's not as simple as saying, "It's my property." I wish it was. Sounds like your neighbors are ignorant about bees, and don't care to learn the truth. It's up to each one of us how we deal with that. I'd like to say that if I ran into that problem, I would put my bees in another yard. Especially if I knew that their objection was due to severe allergic reactions to bees. But I haven't been there yet. If the guy started threatening my family...

Michael Bush · July 29, 2015, 03:37:38 PM

> and threatened to kill me if his wife got stung...

Yea. I think most DAs are calling that "Terroristic threats" these days... I think I would call the cops over a death threat...

steved73t · July 30, 2015, 12:08:25 AM

I think the meeting went very well tonight. I didn't stay for the verdict. It went until 10 pm, and they had 4 different appeals to consider after listening to everyone. It looked like at least 2 to 1 in favor of keeping bees. The room was standing room only. The people against it said the bees were all over their flowers. Some were allergic, but put flowers near their front door and all around their pool and then complained when the bees came in their yard. The hives were installed in March and no one said they had been sting. There were two experts on bee keeping that spoke very well and answered questions for the board. They explained the difference between honey bees and yellow jackets and bumble bees and wasps. The people in favor talked about how docile honey bees are and how much better their berries and gardens are after to hives were set up. I will let you know when I hear how they decide. Thanks for all your input. Steve

BeeMaster2 · July 30, 2015, 12:12:21 AM

We will keep our fingers crossed for you.
Jim

steved73t · July 30, 2015, 07:46:03 AM

WE WON! The board voted 3-0 that hobby bee keeping is not an agricultural use and is allowed in residential zoning. There is no mention of bee keeping in the zoning ordinance, so I believe that may change. We will watch and make sure any changes are fair and reasonable. We all learned a lot about bee keeping at the meeting. Steve

Wombat2 · July 30, 2015, 08:12:49 AM

Great Outcome

Eric Bosworth · July 30, 2015, 01:11:01 PM

groovy

BeeMaster2 · July 30, 2015, 03:20:41 PM

Congratulations.
Jims

BeeMaster2 · July 30, 2015, 03:23:13 PM

Now go out there and get some bees. Don't deny it you are already hooked

Jim

chux · July 30, 2015, 04:46:29 PM

What a great result. You guys handled that great! Educated the community, and probably swayed several people to be in favor of bees and beekeeping. Awesome!

buzzbee · July 30, 2015, 11:32:22 PM

The non agricultural designation may not be the best, but as long as it only applies to a "hobbiest" it may be okay.
Since they had no ordinance forbidding it, grandfathering existing hives may be pursued if they decide to draft a ordinance. Keep vigilant and learn all you can about the benefits to the community with Urban beekeeping. I think Philadelphia allows it now. Do some research to stay armed for battles that may still loom on the horizon.

http://www.headspacemag.com/greens_bee.html

http://www.pastatebeekeepers.org/pdf/Zoning.pdf