How do you open up the brood in an eight frame box

[SlickMick]

I guess KLB, that you didn't realise that not only to our bees fly upside down but also they fly backwards to keep the dust out of their eyes

You think I'm joshing don't you but it's true

Mick

[SlickMick]

So, follow-up!

It seems that I might have a virgin Queen flying around looking for appropriate mates as all the boys were out and about today. Those are came back seemed to be entire so it appears that Queenie may still be looking for suitable suitors

Shall have a poke around some time next week and hopefully see those little white eggs at the bottom of the cells.

Mick

[Acebird]

So yesterday I reconfigured the hive to bottom deep, half depth partially drawn comb, half depth honey, half depth partially drawn comb all in 8 frames. So there should be plenty of room for a vigorous queen to lay in. Yet still they beard even though they have the equivalent of a single deep in which to move.

There are a number of reasons why bees beard.  One is to control hive temperature, probably the most common.

[SlickMick]

Checked the hive this afternoon.

No sign of the Queen, no eggs, eight frames being backfilled with honey, no brood, one capped Queen cell and four empty Queen cups. So I am thinking that the Queen cell is an attempt to produce an emergency Queen and that the hive requires a Queen urgently.

The hive is still pretty strong with bees and I can fortunately get hold of another nuc tomorrow evening and do a paper combine in a day or so. At least that way I can take advantage of any autumn and winter flow and have a strong hive for spring. If by chance the Queen does appear over the next couple of days there, I have my second colony ? just have to buy some more wood.

Mick

[KeyLargoBees]

Mick in looking at your time line best guess of the swarm and what not she shouldn't even have a possibility of laying until today 4/12 and sometimes depending on drone availability and weather it can take several days more...I wouldn't give up on your Virgin until around 4/16 or 4/17 and if you combine before then you risk a battle royale which could damage both queens.....anyone else with more experience is welcome to comment on this please....I am just running numbers

[SlickMick]

Thanks for working that through for me KL.

The one thing that has me puzzled is the capped queen cell. There was no uncapped brood left in the box and certainly no eggs to make up a working queen cell with. The only thing I can think of is that they see this is their last opportunity to become queen right naturally. They must have somehow used one of the then existing capped brood cells. The area for about 3 cm radius has been cleared of any cells on both sides of the foundation.

I am still going to collect the nuc this evening as is so late in the season here I might not be able to get either a new queen or nuc in a weeks time.

If by chance there is a new Queen by the weekend than I shall allow the nuc to develop into a new hive. If not then I shall then combine the two colonies.

Mick

[PhilK]

...The only thing I can think of is that they see this is their last opportunity to become queen right naturally. They must have somehow used one of the then existing capped brood cells...

To make a queen they need either an egg or a young larvae.. my understanding is once a brood cell is capped it is well and truly too late for them to make a queen out of the larva inside.

I have also seen capped queen cells recently in a nuc we received that had no eggs or brood in it. Confusing!

[SlickMick]

Well the long and short of the story is that I picked up the nuc on the Thursday before last, checked that there were no eggs or Queen in the brood box and combined the two colonies on the Saturday. The two colonies are now working as one.

Went into the two boxes yesterday (Saturday), a nice brood pattern in the nuc box and below it in the original brood box some young larva in uncapped cells. I shall check again next week.

Thanks for all your suggestions

Mick

[SlickMick]

The end of the saga is here at last.

I had a look through both boxes this morning. I saw the Queen in the bottom box with a couple of frames of capped and uncapped Brood and a frame and a bit in the top box. The rest of the bottom box is heavy with honey so I am going to have to move some of that out into the top box and insert empty frames to give her Majesty room to lay.

I now realise that I should have done that prior to them swarming in March, so at least I have learnt something from the exercise. I knew then that they needed space but just couldn't imagine how to go about giving it to them.

Mick

[BeeMaster2]

Congratulations, glad it worked out for you.
Jim