Just split a hive, not sure what I need to do now!

[brock]

Hi there, total Newbee here! I live in Gresham, Oregon and my aunt and I bought an established hive from some guys on Craigslist. It was a two deep box hive and was pretty full so we decided to split it.

Today, a week after their move we opened both of them up and in the first hive we found this..



What looks to my novice beekeeper eyes as a bunch of queen cells... I hope I'm right!? There were also no eggs in sight but larvae and capped brood were present.

Do I need to do anything in this hive? Or are they doing why they need to do in order to raise a new queen?


As for the other hive, we actually spotted the queen and some fresh eggs throughout a few different frames...

Here is the queen


And her fresh eggs


However I noticed there are a few cells with two eggs in them... I have read in my "beekeeping for dummies" book that might be a sign of laying workers? Is this true? or could the queen have accidentally laid an extra egg here and there?

Any help you can offer would be much appreciated!! Thanks in advance!

-Brock

[herbhome]

Looks like they are doing okay to me.

[cao]

Welcome to the forum.  They are looking good to me.     Did you split the hive into two single deep boxes?  That would explain the queen cells in the first hive.  If the queen cells are on separate frames, it would be easy to start a nuc if you wanted to.  It appears that some of the queen cells are capped.  The new queen will hatch 7 days after the cell is capped.  Then she will go on her mating flight.  You should start seeing eggs in 2-3 weeks.

It is true that multiple eggs in a cell is a sign of a laying worker but in your case I'm 99.9% sure that it is not the case.  Even a queen can make a mistake every now and again.  The workers will take care of it.   

I hope you are having fun with your bees.

[Psparr]

The double cells may be just a sign of a new queen. They are on the bottom of the cells which is a good sign.
You have a few capped queen cells in the first picture. That's good. The best thing to do is wait three or four weeks till you open up the box and see if the new queen is laying.

[deknow]

If it were me, I might destroy the capped cells, and leave the 2 best looking uncapped cells (1 if they really crowded and have the foragers from the original hive), but if you aren't going to do that, just leave them alone for a couple weeks (the hardest part of splitting).

[brock]

Thank you all for your help! We split them into single deeps originally. Then after a few days of reading about it and stressing out we added an empty deep to both hives so they would have room to grow..

So just to be sure,
hive #1 (with the capped queen cells)
  We should leave it alone for 2-3weeks and then inspect for eggs

And hive #2 (with present queen)
  Go about normal inspection? I've read that it's good/ok for new beekeeper a to inspect their hive once a week but I've also read that smoking the bees sets their progress back a few days.
   I sure don't want to delay their progress but I do enjoy inspecting them and the more I get in there and look at them, the more I learn and understand and know what I'm looking at...
What do you all suggest?

[Dallasbeek]

I would resist the desire to disrupt their routine on a weekly basis.  Doing that can lead to the bees blaming the queen for all the bother, in which event they dispense with her and make a replacement. 

Why would a new beekeeper need to go into a hive more often than an experiencd one?  That sounds like someone trying to justify their interference with a hive on a weekly basis.  Every time you open a hive, the bees have to spend time getting it back the way they want it.

[Dallasbeek]

It would help if you would enter your location in your profile.  The answer to many questions depend on location.  Your stating in your original post that you are in Gresham, OR, will not appear in future strings.  Good luck with your bees and welcome to the forum.  Looks like you're off to a good start.  KathyP, in Boring, is on the forum and will be a good resource for you, as she is experienced and very helpful.

[cao]

It's not the smoking that sets the bees back. Its the full frame by frame inspection.  Breaking loose all the propolis and the changing positions of the frames.  You cant just pop open the lid and look down between the frames and not set them back any.  Yes it would be best to leave your first hive alone for at least two weeks before doing an in depth inspection.  Your second hive can be inspected as normal.  Yes once a week is probably a little often but how else are you going to learn.  If your worried about disturbing them too much, I would suggest that you don't always do a complete frame by frame inspection.  Just go in deep enough to see some brood.  That will tell you that the queen is fine and doing her job.  Or since you have two hives, you can inspect your hives on alternate weeks.  That way you get to play with your bees every week but they get a week off. 

[Acebird]

Hi brock, my feeling is you already had the hive open and going through the frames.  You took pictures.  Because you already went in the hive I would have separated the frames that had queen cells and done another split.  And then left everything alone for about three weeks. 
Raising your own queens is always a risk because virgin queens don't always make it back.  That is why mated queens are more expensive.  Finding queen cells and making another split increases your odds of getting at least one more queen right hive.

[brock]

Wow thanks for the quick and helpful tips everyone!

As for doing another split I probably have time for that right?
Is it a good idea? Or do I risk loosing that weaker hive all together?

If it is a good idea and you suggest I do it... How should I go about it?
The last split was relatively self explanatory we just moved the top box off the lower box and voila...

I have no idea how I would go about splitting a single box.. (Remember... Total newb!!)  but I like the idea of better odds for a queenright hive!

As for my location, I have updated it on my phone in this app but for some reason it doesn't show up...

[Acebird]

Well it is kind of the same thing although you will need another box.  You take half the frames out of one box and put them in another.  You might have an equipment problem if you don't have another box, frames, bottom board and cover.  You just want to make sure that there are cells in both boxes and if you can't supply frames of honey then you have to feed for a while.  This assumes there are enough bees in both boxes.  It would have been best to do when you first saw the cells because now it means another intervention and maybe the cells are hatched already.  It might be iffy now.  Keep it in mind if this situation repeats itself.  I am a firm believer in non intervention but seeing is how you did is why I mentioned what I would have done seeing cells.

[Dallasbeek]

You probably can't edit your profile with a phone, especially if you use Tap-a-Talk.  You might ask an administrator to do it for you.

[brock]

Well it is kind of the same thing although you will need another box.  You take half the frames out of one box and put them in another.  You might have an equipment problem if you don't have another box, frames, bottom board and cover.  You just want to make sure that there are cells in both boxes and if you can't supply frames of honey then you have to feed for a while.  This assumes there are enough bees in both boxes.  It would have been best to do when you first saw the cells because now it means another intervention and maybe the cells are hatched already.  It might be iffy now.  Keep it in mind if this situation repeats itself.  I am a firm believer in non intervention but seeing is how you did is why I mentioned what I would have done seeing cells.

Okay that makes sense and I think we have enough equipment for that... But I kinda feel like we should just wait this out and see if the virgin queen makes it back after mating and starts to lay.. If it doesn't work out and htey start making more cells then we might try another split and at that point we would have to supplement a frame of eggs/larvae from our other hive right??


I do use the tapatalk app... I'll try getting on the computer first before I bug an admin.

[Dallasbeek]

At some point you could run out of eggs/brood less than 3 days old for them to make a queen.  Acebird, what do you advise (since you've been in the lead thus far)?

Yes, getting on the compter would be good.

[brock]

Well we have a queenright hive from the initial split that I could steal some eggs from. Or does that not work?

[Dallasbeek]

Yep, that works just fine. 

[cao]

Well we have a queenright hive from the initial split that I could steal some eggs from. Or does that not work?

Yes if the queen doesn't make it back that is what you would do.  Based on you pics in I would probably give her three weeks to hatch, mate and start to lay.  If at that time you don't see her or eggs than pull a frame from your other hive that has eggs or very young larva(less then 3 days old). 

[brock]

Sounds like a plan! I'll update here after our next inspection.. Fingers crossed she hatches healthy and returns to the hive!

[GSF]

Welcome