Need advice on a hot hive

Acebird · July 25, 2016, 08:36:26 PM

Good suggestion Jim because Brian did not tell us how far away he moved the hive. Maybe Michael Bush will chime in. He uses top entrances that exposes that tender belly.

Flyin Brian · July 25, 2016, 10:28:53 PM

Quote from: sawdstmakr on July 25, 2016, 01:15:21 PM
Brian,
Since you have skunks in your area, just raise the hive up a little to make the skunk raise his belly off the ground while he is bothering the hive. It is his weak spot and the bees know how to teach him a lesson.
Jim

Yeah it already was on a stand, so maybe that was not the problem. Who knows.

I made a new stand yesterday and it is around 12" off the ground at the new spot. The new spot is 15+ miles away.

So I went out there today to check on them. I decided to go ahead and split the 2 boxes and brought a new top & bottom. As soon as I opened the lid things went crazy! I thought I had opened a hornets nest. I can't even begin to describe how things went, but it was like nothing I want to experience again. Luckily I had my pant legs taped up and I put a pair of work gloves over my light lambskin gloves.

When I finished I still had bees chasing me 300 yards away. I looked at my gloves and there are stingers on at least every inch of the leather.

I called my contact person who has queens and I will be picking up 2 of them tomorrow.

The current situation is the 2 deep boxes are now single deeps next to each other. The old queen is on the left, no queen on the right.

Since I have always raised my own queens, I'm not sure if I should have pinched the queen today or? I don't think I could have dealt with any more than what I did splitting them, that was a chore.

My plan is to get the Queens at 10am and be at the yard at 11, find the queen, pinch her, and hang a queen in each box.

Is there another way to do this or does it sound like I am on the right track?

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Caribou · July 26, 2016, 01:46:08 AM

One thing you might want to do is to take a small vial of alcohol to put the queen in. This can be used later for a bee lure.

Colobee · July 26, 2016, 05:50:07 AM

Quote from: Flyin Brian on July 25, 2016, 12:33:34 PM
I showed up at 8pm and as we pulled into the yard there was a skunk standing there by the fence...

Some of the most aggressive bees I've ever had to deal with ( before AHB crosses) were being preyed on by skunks. Corner hives in out-yards seemed to be the typical culprits. Skunks leave a "telltale" path of mashed down grass/plants when frequenting hives, as well as scratch marks around the entrance.

There are a number of ways to counter skunk assaults. Raising the entrance - either the bottom, or a new top (only) helps. A low hot wire is also effective, but invites shorting out the wire when low foliage comes in contact - it has to be trimmed more regularly. Some use carpet "tack-strips" around the bottom entrance.

Regardless - this is quite likely the reason the hive is/was aggressive. They should calm right down within weeks at a new location that isn't plagued by skunks.

Good luck!

GSF · July 26, 2016, 08:23:19 AM

Bees will go crazy after you first move them. It's probably like an earthquake that lasts for hours.

Flyin Brian · July 27, 2016, 01:40:17 AM

Today was the big day!!! I went and picked up 2 queens and got out to the yard around 11am. It was 103F here today, so I am glad it was before noon and only around 94 at the time.

I opened up the box on the right and heard the familiar "buzzzz" of a queenless hive, so I installed one caged queen there in between frames.

Then I turned on the video camera (on a tripod) and here is the video:

https://youtu.be/M92iakJ8MU4

The 3 minute mark is when a lot of bees are flying, and again around 4:40 they are pretty upset.
The box had not been apart for 6 years.

I brought an empty nuc with me. I pulled frames from the hive one at a time and put them in the nuc, when I had it full I went back to the main box and now I had it full of bees and 5 frames in a 10 box. This way I could pull them out one at a time and look and set them to one side, and so on. I finally found her on the far right edge, running on solid honey!!! WTH, she is not supposed to be on honey right? lol

I pulled my queen catcher hair clip thingy and caught her with 10 workers and got her into another box quickly. I then took the 2nd queen and put tape over the entrance to the candy plug so they could not release her early, then I put her in the frames. They really didn't seem to care at that point, but it will be interesting to see how they are treating her this week when I go back in.

Unfortunately my phone died before I found her, so I did not get pics of that. I did save her in a small bottle of alcohol though.

Thanks for all the suggestions and help. I will update as time progresses.

GSF · July 27, 2016, 08:13:17 AM

When I pulled honey last I found capped brood and larva in the super above a capped super of honey. Nope, she didn't read the book.

Acebird · July 27, 2016, 08:45:25 AM

Brian, it looked to me that the hive was a very healthy hive packed full of bees. I don't know how angry they were because I wasn't there but they did not seem to crawl all over you and your veil was not covered with bees which is something I would expect with a very aggressive hive. You did not attempt to cover either box and you worked directly over the box. I think that method is going to put a lot of bees in the air.
I am wondering what others think on how aggressive they would rate this hive.

Nugget Shooter · July 27, 2016, 10:56:03 AM

Yep like Jim said... Skunks are or can be a problem here so all 4 of my hives are on 14 inch stands like this,

BeeMaster2 · July 27, 2016, 01:24:00 PM

Brian,
Smoke your bees (in the entrance) about 30-45 seconds or more before you open the hive. This blocks out their communication and gives them time to fill their bellies with honey.
When you lift the lid, add some smoke and let them move down on the comb and then open it. Open the lid away from you. The bees will dart out at high speed and sting what ever they can. If the lid is in the way, they have a chance to calm down after the initial dart out of the hive.
When you laid the pair of frames on top of the hive, you killed and injured lots of bees. Every bee near an injured be gets a dose of danger pheromones and goes into attack mode. Instead, lean the frame on the side of the hive, giving the bees time to get out from under the wood. Then use your hive tool to separate the 2 frames.
Since you are wearing heavy gloves, slowly slide your bees on the frame to allow the bees to move out of the way. You are crushing a lot of bees when you just grab a frame, again, lots of attack pheromones stirring them up and it will take several weeks for them to calm down.
As mentioned, I did not see bees attacking you. They were very agitated but I would have expected you to be covered with bees.
Hope this helps.
Jim

Acebird · July 27, 2016, 01:42:59 PM

Yes Jim, I will second everything you said.

Flyin Brian · July 27, 2016, 04:47:59 PM

The entrance was smoked twice before I opened the lid.

I guess I am just imagining that this is a hot hive, as I said on the beginning of the video, it was not nearly as active as it was the day before when I split them.

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divemaster1963 · July 28, 2016, 03:38:45 AM

From what I saw they seem to bee of average temperment. Kind like the bees from the seventies and eighties before they started heavely breeding more docile bees. I personnel prefer those traits in my bees. They seem to me to defendthe hive from shb and wasps and hhornet's more. I have found them to be less prone to vero. This is my observation and may not be others.

John.

Beeboy01 · July 29, 2016, 04:55:52 PM

You need to use more smoke when first opening up the hive and while working it. Once the bees get riled up it's too late to calm them back down, get that smoker pumping smoke across the top of the frames before you start pulling a frame out. Good luck with the requeening, it should work.

divemaster1963 · July 29, 2016, 10:35:36 PM

Quote from: Beeboy01 on July 29, 2016, 04:55:52 PM
You need to use more smoke when first opening up the hive and while working it. Once the bees get riled up it's too late to calm them back down, get that smoker pumping smoke across the top of the frames before you start pulling a frame out. Good luck with the requeening, it should work.

Plus make a sheet ( dark and thick ) with the size of a fame cut in center. Place it over hive and pull frame thru the slot. Then place it back and move sheet to next frame. Doing this one exposes one frame at a time. And the rest of the hive is covered. The bees will be calmer doing this.

John

rober · July 30, 2016, 02:33:35 PM

you can cut wooden carpet installation strips to fit the landing board. when the skunks tap they get stuck & back off.
I live trap & drown them. another thing that has not been mentioned yet is that hives can get cranky if there is no queen. you might want to check the hive for brood. when bees follow me I smoke myself heavily & walked thru the low hanging branches of trees.

bwallace23350 · July 31, 2016, 09:35:41 PM

I have never seen my bees act like that. I would call that hot. Only once have they been riled up and they were still not that angry

bwallace23350 · July 31, 2016, 09:36:40 PM

How many stings did you take on this?

Michael Bush · August 01, 2016, 11:00:03 AM

I've had bees where I couldn't see out of the veil... just because they are in the air does not mean they are angry. Maybe they are hot. Maybe they just need more room.