Poisons in our food

[GSF]

Jim, could some of the poisons be coming from the plants themselves? Johnson grass has a level of arsenic in it.

[bwallace23350]

I agree with you on the large scale but in a home garden I can assure that you can get a good harvest without any spray what so ever

I don't believe it is the scale (size) that makes the difference.  The difference is monoculture.  If you get a fungus, blite, bug that attacks a certain vegetable you could lose the whole crop.  But when you mix in all different kinds of vegetables you will still have a good yield on some of them that are not affected by the fungus, blite, or bug.  The variation in vegetation is what makes healthy hives, heck it is what makes healthy people.

That might explain the healthiness of my plants. I don't even plant the same varieties every year and I rotate the locations within the garden. I plant a very large veggie garden and an even bigger fruit orchard. It was pollination needs that got me into bee keeping in the first place.

[texanbelchers]

Bullcrap

Not my food of choice...

There has been an ongoing concern about population growth and the ability to produce and distribute sufficient food.  Great strides have been made in agriculture; especially in the last century.  Examples, reports, and opinions are all over the Internet so you can choose your position.  From http://passel.unl.edu/pages/informationmodule.php?idinformationmodule=1075412493&topicorder=10&maxto=12

The national average corn grain yield in the United States began to increase steadily in the 1940s (Figure 11).  In the most recent decade, the average yield was 125 bushels per acre, nearly five times greater than 70 years before. Several studies conducted by universities have indicated that much of this improved yield was the result of improved genetics; that is, it occurred because farmers were planting improved varieties of corn developed through plant breeding. Greater use of fertilizer, more and better herbicides, improved soil tillage, and other altered production practices also contributed to the increased yields.

http://passel.unl.edu/Image/siteImages/CornYieldGraphLG.gif
Fig. 11: Corn Grain Yields (University of Nebraska-
{emphasis added}

This does not list pesticides, but neither did I.  I suspect that you can find any of them in the final product.

It is projected that world production will need to double again by 2050 to keep up with the population.  That is going to take a lot of money, effort, genetics, and ...chemicals.

[Acebird]

That is going to take a lot of money, effort, genetics, and ...chemicals.

It is going to take education and more countries producing food for their own people.  The population of the US will not double and we already produce way more food than WE need.  And the reason is $, lots of them.  Other countries need to produce less people and more food.

[KeyLargoBees]

This topic has me thinking of the VOA thread..... 

[PhilK]

Pesticide residues in food are allowed only at levels that don't affect health

That is the propaganda you are led to believe.

Is there an eye rolling emoji? There is plenty of research to indicate how certain acceptable residue levels are figured out.

A certain percentage of the population will always be affected by pesticide residues in their food.  Just like a life saving prescription will be approved even though some casualties may come about as a result of their use.

I agree. A very small percentage may be affected by pesticide residues in their food - that sucks for them. I have seen no issues or reports of people dying or becoming sick from pesticide residues in their food (in my country) for some time.

Pesticides are not used to make food healthier.  They are used to make food look better and create more yield ($) the side effect is less people can tolerate the food and they may not know it.

I agree that this is the reason - pesticides are used to prevent pests from destroying crops. They increase yields and profits, which I think is a good thing. I think they need to be tightly regulated of course, and I think they are not the answer to everything, but they serve an important function. It will do nobody any favours if half the farmers crops are all left rotting in the fields because of pests or diseases. Research, genetic selection, and pesticide alternatives need to be figured out but until we get a workable system pesticides will have to be used at the recommended levels

[Acebird]

I have seen no issues or reports of people dying or becoming sick from pesticide residues in their food (in my country) for some time.

You're kidding right?  No cancer, no birth defects, no dementia, Alzheimer, or Parkinson disease?

I agree that this is the reason - pesticides are used to prevent pests from destroying crops. They increase yields and profits, which I think is a good thing. I think they need to be tightly regulated of course, and I think they are not the answer to everything, but they serve an important function. It will do nobody any favours if half the farmers crops are all left rotting in the fields because of pests or diseases. Research, genetic selection, and pesticide alternatives need to be figured out but until we get a workable system pesticides will have to be used at the recommended levels

I believe, this is my opinion, that nature is the workable system.  You fight it, you lose one way or another.  Starvation is not caused by the lack of pesticides.  Starvation is caused by the lack of water or government corruption or the lack of a government that cares for those in need.  Regardless of want the yield is people will starve.  They even do in this country.

[Jim134]

This topic has me thinking of the VOA thread..... 

    VOA=Voice of America?


              BEE HAPPY Jim 134 :)

[CrazyTalk]

I meant that organics show that it is doable, and we certainly have the smarts to scale up production. We don't have to settle for poisoning ourselves.

Organics show no such thing.


Organic crops are treated with significantly higher levels of pesticides than 'traditional' crops.  The fact that something is 'naturally based' neither makes it safe, nor effective.

Organics aren't safer, they're not healthier, and they're not better for the environment. They're a marketing tool.

Farming practices should be determined by their safety, and effectiveness - not some misguided idea that being natural is better.

[flyboy]

Organics show no such thing.


Organic crops are treated with significantly higher levels of pesticides than 'traditional' crops.  The fact that something is 'naturally based' neither makes it safe, nor effective.

Organics aren't safer, they're not healthier, and they're not better for the environment. They're a marketing tool.

Farming practices should be determined by their safety, and effectiveness - not some misguided idea that being natural is better.

IYHO

[PhilK]

Excellent point CrazyTalk - plenty of the pesticides that people hate on are derived from 'naturally occurring' chemicals.

Acebird yes of course these defects exist - have they been irrefutably linked to pesticide use in food? Not as far as I'm aware. I also find these debates hard to enter into when people start sliding towards talking about government corruption and general anti-government sentiment. I don't feel it really has a place in a realistic debate about pesticides

[bwallace23350]

With current farming practices we are stripping the soil. This does worry me. As for my own food I grow a bunch of it and would one day like to be almost totally free from the food chain and with that any worry about pesticides. I mean a few worms never hurt anyone.

I am not so sure about these organic pesticides either. I do know that there is truth to the claims that free range grass fed meat is better for us though and that we use way to many antibiotics in our meat products.  I would rather eat less and smaller portions of meat than grain fed antibiotic laden meat

[CrazyTalk]

Organics show no such thing.


Organic crops are treated with significantly higher levels of pesticides than 'traditional' crops.  The fact that something is 'naturally based' neither makes it safe, nor effective.

Organics aren't safer, they're not healthier, and they're not better for the environment. They're a marketing tool.

Farming practices should be determined by their safety, and effectiveness - not some misguided idea that being natural is better.

IYHO

No, it is not my opinion.

There are no safety, health, or effectiveness qualifications in the organic standard. This is easily verified by reading the USDA's organic guidelines.

[paus]

Is this to far out?  WE eat food that has been grown in soil and the food removes nutrients from the soil.  We then run the food waste through waste disposal systems and the nutrients are usually sent down the river never again to be recycled to our soil.  What is wrong with the "Honey wagon" , and this has nothing to do with bees.  Just a thought that my wife thinks is repulsive.  Paus

[Duffydog]

MaryAnn Fraser (sp) of Pennsylvania state is still finding DDT and lead of arsenic in brood comb. She also works for the USDA beekeeping lab in Pennsylvania. On average she finds 5 to 6 chemicals . In a bee hive that should not be there. She has found about 300 different kind of chemicals across the United States in bee wax..
It won't be long until she finds Oxalic acid in honey and wax and beekeeper will begin to encounter health problems from the chemicals we use for mites and other diseases.
http://ento.psu.edu/directory/mxt15

           BEE HAPPY Jim 134 :)

[Michael Bush]

>Organic crops are treated with significantly higher levels of pesticides than 'traditional' crops.  The fact that something is 'naturally based' neither makes it safe, nor effective.
>Organics aren't safer, they're not healthier, and they're not better for the environment. They're a marketing tool.
>Farming practices should be determined by their safety, and effectiveness - not some misguided idea that being natural is better.

This is all because of the USDA stealing the term.  My grandparents and my momand many of my friends are/were all organic gardeners.  They used no pesticides.  Their gardens were very productive.  Organic used to be a philosophy of seeing the soil as a living thing (which it is) and nurturing the soil and working with nature instead of against it.  This modern "big organic" movement is something else entirely.  Natural is better.

[splitrock]

"This is all because of the USDA stealing the term.  My grandparents and my momand many of my friends are/were all organic gardeners.  They used no pesticides.  Their gardens were very productive.  Organic used to be a philosophy of seeing the soil as a living thing (which it is) and nurturing the soil and working with nature instead of against it.  This modern "big organic" movement is something else entirely.  Natural is better."

Amen!! Here is another.,,,, but first I need to say, I trust modern medicine as much as I trust the main stream media, our current administration and main stream religion. I also believe what the former head of the Mayo clinic says today. Unless you are in a serious accident, avoid the doctors as much as you can.

Modern Medicine (not very old) has stolen the term traditional and tagged it onto what they that practice and their treatments. They ignore effective natural remedies that have been around for centuries because all they have been taught during their years of schooling is cut, poison, and burn. The dr's. today have had very little schooling on nutrition.

Those that think modern man now days is improving living organism's by altering DNA and gene splicing, and replacing natural foods and remedies provided by the original creator with often highly toxic drugs, and questionable edibles/foods  are only fooling themselves....
Don't believe me, just google recalled prescription drugs in the last 20 years, 10 years, or even lets say last 6 months. Then you can wonder how/why they (them experts) approved them, when your drugs number will be up, and what you are going to do then. 

Our bodies are like a finely tuned race car engines, put poor fuel in, we don't run so good, and we will foul up. The key to good health is in prevention. Regular exercise and eating healthy foods being the answer,  not visits to the doctor and taking their risky drugs and treatments AFTER you become fouled.

My wife is a traditional naturalpath, i know a little about what i'm talking about. I can tell you, many of her clients are nurses. They say they don't want to be caught in the same trap they see so many of their patients caught in. Also, one of our daughters is an RN, she kinda poo pooed moms profession as a teenager, but after getting into nursing school realized mom was pretty smart since she could help her with her education  And now,  after a few years of frequent doctoring with poor results, guess who she calls when she has a problem with one of her kids now, yep, the good ol naturalpath.

Oh, and did anyone see a few months ago on the national news when they told us what the number 3 cause of death in this country is?
Behind the first two, cancer, and heart disease, it's DOCTOR ERROR. (hit a search engine it if you don't believe me.) So if the AMA is so far off, how smart do you think the FDA, the WHO, and the rest of them that oversee and educate them people are?

Our medical community kills more people by accident that opposing armies, armed to the teeth trying to kill each other. Don't believe me? google U.S. Combatants killed in the Whole viet-nam war,  what was it 10 years long? then look up accidental dr. related deaths just Last year and see where the larger number lies.

[bwallace23350]

    That is going to take a lot of money, effort, genetics, and ...chemicals.


It is going to take education and more countries producing food for their own people.  The population of the US will not double and we already produce way more food than WE need.  And the reason is $, lots of them.  Other countries need to produce less people and more food.


Half the world's countries have below replacement rate fertility levels. The problem with the world food supply is Africa. Not that they are having a lot of kids but tthat they have poor agricultural practices, poor seeds, poor yields, poor transportation, and poor storage. IF we improve in Africa with agriculture then we will be more than all right. Oh and it would help if we ate less meat.

[Nugget Shooter]

Yes, many chemicals are in our food at some level.  They may or may not damage our bodies.  However, if they were not used you wouldn't have food to eat.  Pick your poison, so to speak.

Lots of great reading, but this still rings true.... Too many people.