Swarm prep timing and method advice

yes2matt · May 20, 2019, 10:09:13 PM

I think I ask the same question over and over. I'm pretty obsessed with keeping my bees in the yard, I guess.

Anyway, I have two colonies, one is twenty frames and a super; one is ten frames and a super. They've both raised a batch or two of drones. They've got room upstairs, but they're backfilling worker comb. I think they're getting ready to get ready to go. They've both got Q-cups built in swarm positions, just a couple each, and I can tell they're prepping/polishing, but I couldn't see if there was an egg or a larvae.

So: y'all who have seen this before. My goals are : > to keep the bees in the yard; > to finish off the supers of honey they've started. Flow is starting to taper off -- I'm seeing quite a bit of washboarding -- but it's not quite over yet. Few weeks left maybe. What might I do, when?

Acebird · May 20, 2019, 10:37:35 PM

I am not sure Matt but if the flow is tapering off then it is suicide for them to swarm. My feeling is if they swarm when conditions are bad, praise the Lord because these are not the bees you want to waste your time and resources on.

yes2matt · May 20, 2019, 11:02:30 PM

Quote from: Acebird on May 20, 2019, 10:37:35 PM
I am not sure Matt but if the flow is tapering off then it is suicide for them to swarm. My feeling is if they swarm when conditions are bad, praise the Lord because these are not the bees you want to waste your time and resources on.

OOOH this is a good observation, I hadn't thought of that at all. So if my intervention involves a split/requeen or whatever, I would select away from either of these colonies... which is a little bummer because both of them are early starters.

BeeMaster2 · May 20, 2019, 11:28:48 PM

Matt,
A Q cup does not mean they are going to swarm. Bees make them all the time. It is only when they add a egg and hatch it that you need to worry.
Jim Altmiller

BAHBEEs · May 22, 2019, 02:59:14 PM

A note if you happen to have Russian or at least lately Russian genetics. They pretty much keep swarm cells and have them filled at all times. If they end up not needing the new Queen they just kill her, but I have never opened a Russian hive that did not have a number of them. The two Russian hives have only dropped one swarm in 2 years even with all those cell (both swarm and superceedure cells).

It does make Russian hives very easy to split!

BeeMaster2 · May 22, 2019, 05:05:55 PM

Bahbee,
Welcome to Beemaster
That is good information to know. I have a commercial Beek friend who wants to try Russians. I will let him know about this.
Jim Altmiller

Acebird · May 23, 2019, 09:21:45 AM

Yes, very interesting. This is the first I have heard of this trait.

AR Beekeeper · May 23, 2019, 10:21:02 AM

I have read about this in Russian bees, but with my Russians, when they have queen cells they intend to swarm.

Once they have an egg or larvae the only way I have ever stopped a swarm was by removing the queen and cutting all the cells out but for one. When the queen was left in the colony, cells removed, and space given, the bees would start new cells and the queen would leave when the first one was capped.

Oldbeavo · May 23, 2019, 06:15:33 PM

If the bees have room and are intending to swarm, they are going at some time, as stated before, remove queen and some bees so the hive thinks it has swarmed.
Knocking all the cups or cells off can buy you a few days if you need to get gear organised.
Depopulating a hive to prevent swarming must be done before the bees think about swarming

yes2matt · May 23, 2019, 10:18:07 PM

Quote from: BAHBEEs on May 22, 2019, 02:59:14 PM
A note if you happen to have Russian or at least lately Russian genetics. They pretty much keep swarm cells and have them filled at all times. If they end up not needing the new Queen they just kill her, but I have never opened a Russian hive that did not have a number of them. The two Russian hives have only dropped one swarm in 2 years even with all those cell (both swarm and superceedure cells).

It does make Russian hives very easy to split!

My bees build Q-cups onto nearly every frame in the broodnest. But they leave them untouched until they have swarm in mind. I will sometimes see them polishing or depositing royal jelly, or sometimes there will be white wax on them, they've got larvae then and the bees are about ready to go. You are right that gives a head start to a split. But my bees do not do it all the time. I would have blood pressure issues if they did.

yes2matt · May 25, 2019, 03:17:59 PM

Update: a friend said to give them a couple frames of empty drawn comb in the broodnest. As if I have any empties sitting around in May. :) closest thing I have is frames of solid capped brood, which will soon be empty. So I gave them a couple of those.

It appears to have worked. Nectar is being stored "upstairs" again (where I can get it zz ha! ) and the broodnest is back to normal, an egg in every empty cell. White wax on the "stickies" I gave back to them, so they're still intending to make honey.

Michael Bush · May 28, 2019, 11:49:49 AM

In my experience a larva in a queen cup indicates they are trying to swarm or supersede. An egg doesn't mean much. Nothing at all in the cup means nothing at all...