Queenless hive, trying new approach.

[FatherMichael]

Awesome.

I'm amazed by the way beekeeping has developed.

[van from Arkansas]

See first post for details.

7/28, queen hatched, today 8/6 there is two frames of eggs and larva.  Apparently the queen started laying 4-5 days ago based on the size of the larva.  So the queen hatched 7/28 and within 4-5 days was mated and laying.  I have never heard such.

Also the queens cells were small unimpressive contrary to hatching a large beautiful queen that mated and was laying in 4-5 days.

The virgin queen was to be inspected mid August, I up the date a week early to today do to threat of hive beetles.  There were only 5 hive beetles, 3 were killed.

This little test, new endeavor I tried has worked out beautifully.
Cheers to all.
Van

[Ben Framed]

I have heard more than one  beekeeper say small cells don?t matter. Perhaps you can concur; now?
😊😁

Good for you and your new queen!
Phillip

[van from Arkansas]

Absolutely Mr. Ben Framed; small queen cells can pack big surprises.  I did notice the virgin queen cell had a good bit of Royal Jelly left in the cell after the queen hatched.  This tells me the queen had plenty to eat.

The golden rule concerning queen production is surplus Royal Jelly.  That means:
1. extra nurse bees, I mean lots and lots of nurse bees.
2. Stores: plenty of nectar/honey and pollen.

Fact, stores/Royal Jelly are so critical concerning raising queens, a large hive is used to finish queen cells whereas a small hive full of nurse bees is used to start the queen cells.  A poorly fed queen looks beautiful but will not lay as well as a queen that is well fed while developing.  Feeding developing queens is #1 concern.

BTW  When is Ben and Cool going so start grafting and raising their own queens.  You both have what it takes, and no mail order queen is as good as your own raised queen.  Obtain the best genetics with your desired traits and prepare yourself to be amazed.  Unless you are already raising your own.
Blessings
Van

[Ben Framed]

Absolutely Mr. Ben Framed; small queen cells can pack big surprises.  I did notice the virgin queen cell had a good bit of Royal Jelly left in the cell after the queen hatched.  This tells me the queen had plenty to eat.

The golden rule concerning queen production is surplus Royal Jelly.  That means:
1. extra nurse bees, I mean lots and lots of nurse bees.
2. Stores: plenty of nectar/honey and pollen.

Fact, stores/Royal Jelly are so critical concerning raising queens, a large hive is used to finish queen cells whereas a small hive full of nurse bees is used to start the queen cells.  A poorly fed queen looks beautiful but will not lay as well as a queen that is well fed while developing.  Feeding developing queens is #1 concern.

BTW  When is Ben and Cool going so start grafting and raising their own queens.  You both have what it takes, and no mail order queen is as good as your own raised queen.  Obtain the best genetics with your desired traits and prepare yourself to be amazed.  Unless you are already raising your own.
Blessings
Van

Good information Mr Van.  I can not speak for Alan but I think I can safely say Alan and I are both in the learning process as we are steady seeking knowledge. I say that as going by his post and my thoughts also. I seriously considered grafting this past spring as well as other methods of queen rearing, such as (Nicot in which I failed), it wasn?t the fault of Nicot but strictly my own mistake. I hope to once again, this coming spring, to have plenty of wood ware prepared, as I have pretty well filled most of what I had prepared last winter. If plans of more wood ware are fulfilled, I fully intend to (get to grafting).  I have purchased German, JBZB, and Chinese grafting tools as well as jewelers? viewer, magnifying glasses, and a desktop magnifying lamp.  Thank you for your encouragement Mr Van.
Phillip

[van from Arkansas]

Grafting is s piece of cake, I tell ya.  When I started my first graft acceptance was about one in five.  The second was one in 4, the next about 1 in 3.  Each time I improved as I learned to stream line my movements and be choosy,  Last spring I achieved 100 percent, my first.  Standard acceptance is about 80-90 percent depending on the time of year.

You will improve with each graft attempt.  Grafting is so rewarding, so much fun. I receive emails form some very experienced beeks with pics of grafted queen cells, the fellas still get excited when the grafted larva are made into queen cells.  They still boast: Hey lookie at what I did, proud happy fellas showing off their beautiful work, the admirable queen cells.
You have all winter to study grafting.
Blessings
Van

[CoolBees]

Van - I thought I already spelled out how lazy I am. 

I've got an efficient solution to grafting though - I'm gonna buy Phillip all the supplies he needs to graft. Then I can fedex my ladies eggs to him, let him graft them, and he can ship me back my queens. Genius I tell ya', pure-dee genius!!! 

[TheHoneyPump]

Per Van, grafting and acceptance improves with practice.  However, that is only stage 1 and 2, a small percentage of the process to ending with a nice fat mated queen.
As you get better at each stage, the next will beat you down.  When you finally have your own system down that delivers satisfactory success at all stages, only then can be truly content with the results.

[TheHoneyPump]

I have heard more than one  beekeeper say small cells don?t matter. Perhaps you can concur; now?


Good for you and your new queen!
Phillip

I have seen some impressively large queens come out of runty looking cells.  I would say nevermind the cell.  Nor nevermind the queen on the day she emerged.  Check her 3 to 5 days after emergence.  You may be surprised and quite impressed by the mass and size she can take on in those first days. This is in the period before mating.
I have also seen queens emerge very large but then actually shrink to where the day(s) before her mating flight she is no bigger, perhaps smaller, than some of those small cells queens. 
Some great queens, exceeding other stocks, have come from cells that I had come very close to culling at cell stage. My practice now is let them go for it. Though, if they are runty or show some ailment at 3 to 5 days after emergence they may be pinched.

[Ben Framed]

Van - I thought I already spelled out how lazy I am. 

I've got an efficient solution to grafting though - I'm gonna buy Phillip all the supplies he needs to graft. Then I can fedex my ladies eggs to him, let him graft them, and he can ship me back my queens. Genius I tell ya', pure-dee genius!!! 

Well, HUM, believe it or not;  I am at a loss for words!!! LOL

Per Van, grafting and acceptance improves with practice.  However, that is only stage 1 and 2, a small percentage of the process to ending with a nice fat mated queen.
As you get better at each stage, the next will beat you down.  When you finally have your own system down that delivers satisfactory success at all stages, only then can be truly content with the results.

Mr HP I understand your words especially the stage 3.  I feel that I have been very fortunate in being as successful as I have this season, being I know of no other beekeeper within a two mile radios of my bees. Doesn't mean that there are no others, but means I know of none. So, having virgins coming back mated is a pleasantry that I am both puzzled and thankful. I hope to remedy stage 3 by next season. Not just relying on unseen circumstances but actually making a move in the right direction on this most important step. Will you kindly give suggestions as to how to properly go about this step?
Thanks, Phillip

[TheHoneyPump]

The road to a good queen is well over a month long journey.  Stages, in brief summary format.
1. Selection of mature mother queen from proven colony performance.
2. Selection of different drone mother(s) from colony performance.
3. Foster/encourage drone making 3 to 4 weeks before queen graft.
4. Setup of hopelessly, desperately queenless cell starter colony.
5. Grafting
6. Graft acceptance, cell started
7. Cell feeding / finishing / capping in a strong cell finisher colony.
8. Cell incubating; in a hive or artificial
9. Setup of hopelessly queenless receiving colony(s) to receive the cell so they do not cut down/destroy it.
10. Successful emergence from the cell.
11. Acceptance and feed/care of the VQ by the colony.
12. Hardening and maturing. Growth and strengthening for flight.
13.  Good flying weather
14.  Presence of mature drones
15.  LUCK
16.  Queen returns to the right box
17.  Incubating/processing of sperm. Development of egg laying systems
18.  Start laying
19.  Proven laying pattern and brood viability over 2weeks period.
20.  Preparation of final receiving colony.
21.  Handling and transport / shipping to new location.
22. Successful introduction, acceptance into the final colony.

Every step above is blessed with success or halted by failure.

When you see a tight pattern of glistening larvae in the final colony, it is no small trivial feat.  She?s been through a-lot to get there!.

[BeeMaster2]

Good post THP,
Thanks for posting that list.
Jim Altmiller

[Ben Framed]

Thank you Mr. HP for the detailed diagram and thought that you put into it. As you said each step is critical. My specific concern as stated In my post number 29 is setting up a proper circumstance in which l help assure my virgin queens have a better chance of mating. As I said I feel that I have been very fortunate in being as successful as I have this season, being I know of no other beekeeper within a two mile radios of my bees. And from what I have read and been told, a virgin will not mate with drones from the same  Apiary. Is this accurate?  Doesn't mean that there are no others bees or beekeeper in my area, but I know of none. So, having virgins coming back mated is a pleasantry that I am both puzzled and thankful. I hope to remedy this gap,  by next season by making a move in the right direction on this most important step. Setting up a drone conjuration area suitable for my needs.  This is where I can use specific help, guidance, and direction.
Thanks,
Phillip

I realize This has gotten off track from the original topic I am going to forward to a new topic. Thanks Phillip

[Nock]

What are some good books to read or videos to watch on this subject?

[CoolBees]

Well, HUM, believe it or not;  I am at a loss for words!!! LOL

Phillip - the way I figure it, you'll get Queen Grafting perfected long before I start trying to figure it out. So there's no point in 2 of us up-and-comers both doing the same work! 

(Hopefully I made you smile. Cheers man!) 

[van from Arkansas]

Van - I thought I already spelled out how lazy I am. 

I've got an efficient solution to grafting though - I'm gonna buy Phillip all the supplies he needs to graft. Then I can fedex my ladies eggs to him, let him graft them, and he can ship me back my queens. Genius I tell ya', pure-dee genius!!! 

Cool: You say your lazy???  har Har har!!!  I know you hunt western Montana.  Not possible to be lazy and hunt that area.
Van

[Ben Framed]

Van - I thought I already spelled out how lazy I am. 

I've got an efficient solution to grafting though - I'm gonna buy Phillip all the supplies he needs to graft. Then I can fedex my ladies eggs to him, let him graft them, and he can ship me back my queens. Genius I tell ya', pure-dee genius!!! 

Cool: You say your lazy???  har Har har!!!  I know you hunt western Montana.  Not possible to be lazy and hunt that area.
Van

Just being resourceful. Using the head for more than a hat 🎩 rack. 

[Ben Framed]

Well, HUM, believe it or not;  I am at a loss for words!!! LOL

Phillip - the way I figure it, you'll get Queen Grafting perfected long before I start trying to figure it out. So there's no point in 2 of us up-and-comers both doing the same work! 

(Hopefully I made you smile. Cheers man!) 

Yes you did.. I like the resourceful approach.. I have come to realize if a person is serious about grafting and is successful, that person had better be bee 🐝 prepared with enough equipment to house the queens=colonies raised.  We had better be careful Alan or we may very well have bees running out of our ears!!  Even if only one of us is doing the grafting LOL 😂....
Phillip

[CoolBees]

Cool: You say your lazy???  har Har har!!!  I know you hunt western Montana.  Not possible to be lazy and hunt that area.
Van

Hahahaha! ... weeellll ... you have me cornered there Van! 

Boots, backpack, public land, and good glass. Ok - the Best Glass. That's how it's done. Person success rate across 30 yrs - over 70%.  ... yeah - you got me.

Speaking of which - I drew a cow tag in a trophy area - I'll have to chase that one with the bow in Sept. Also drew a Trophy Zone Permit this yr - after many yrs of trying. Only 3 issued to Non-res each yr. My son and I both drew it. Late season after the migration - no competition - trophy Bulls standing around relaxing - and my son and I have 2 out of the 3 Permits. Maybe I can get a 2nd 400 Class Bull before I'm too old to do it anymore.  ... it's gonna be a fun season either way - can't wait! 

Total thread hijack BTW ... :)

[CoolBees]

....  We had better be careful Alan or we may very well have bees running out of our ears!!  Even if only one of us is doing the grafting LOL 😂....
Phillip

That sounds like a plan Phillip! I can think of many worse things, and very few better ones!