Bees Upset on Frames Being Pulled

[van from Arkansas]

Good Morning Mr. Ben. I will clarify.  The winter bee is physically different from the summer bee.  Although the outside looks the same, on the inside the winter bee has a much larger fat body.  Thus we call this bee with a larger fat body a winter bee to distinguish from a summer bee made more for flight having less weight with a much smaller fat body.

Phil, I may have MADE AN ERROR using the term DIFFERENT KIND OF EGG.  I?ll explain:  The genetic material of the egg is encoded differently between winter and summer bees by the fact that is visible, the larger fat body.  The genetic coding my be triggered environmental such as shorter days, or enzymes that the queen produces in the egg, or other factors,,,,, as Ben texted previously.  I used the term, different kind of egg loosely instead of going into the genetic coding which most folks find confusing.

More detailed: in the winter egg, the stem cells that code for the fat body are more active as the replication sequences that the DNA polymerase binds to create higher rates of cellular division [mitosis] has a higher rate of cellular reproduction of the DNA coding for the Fat Body.  Instead of the genetic mumbo jumbo I just used the word different kind of egg.

Now that I think more about it: A DIFFERENT Kind of EGG is a poor choice of words on my part.  Thank you Phil, good catch.  The egg is actually the same, the encoding of the DNA is different.  I try to translate scientific process to plain simple English and sometimes I am to caviler.
Blessings
Van

[Ben Framed]

Good Morning Mr. Ben. I will clarify.  The winter bee is physically different from the summer bee.  Although the outside looks the same, on the inside the winter bee has a much larger fat body.  Thus we call this bee with a larger fat body a winter bee to distinguish from a summer bee made more for flight having less weight with a much smaller fat body.

Phil, I may have MADE AN ERROR using the term DIFFERENT KING OF EGG.  I?ll explain:  The genetic material of the egg is encoded differently between winter and summer bees by the fact that is visible, the larger fat body.  The genetic coding my be triggered environmental such as shorter days, or enzymes that the queen produces in the egg, or other factors,,,,, as Ben texted previously.  I used the term, different kind of egg loosely instead of going into the genetic coding which most folks find confusing.

More detailed: in the winter egg, the stem cells that code for the fat body are more active as the replication sequences that the DNA polymerase binds to create higher rates of cellular division [mitosis] has a higher rate of cellular reproduction of the DNA coding for the Fat Body.  Instead of the genetic mumbo jumbo I just used the word different kind of egg.

Now that I think more about it: A DIFFERENT Kind of EGG is a poor choice of words on my part.  Thank you Phil, good catch.  The egg is actually the same, the encoding of the DNA is different.  I try to translate scientific process to plain simple English and sometimes I am to caviler.
Blessings
Van

Thank you so much Mr Van for clarifying this for me. You scientist are so smart that your terminology goes over the head of SOME of the simple such as ''I''.  He hee .  I was looking at it word to word and from a natural country boy observation, things which I see in nature. I am sure that you also have the nature outlook, but you are so intelligent that you scientific brain also had to have its say and my unscientific brain could not keep up!!!  lol  Thanks again my friend!
Blessings,
Phillip

[The15thMember]

Good Morning Mr. Ben. I will clarify.  The winter bee is physically different from the summer bee.  Although the outside looks the same, on the inside the winter bee has a much larger fat body.  Thus we call this bee with a larger fat body a winter bee to distinguish from a summer bee made more for flight having less weight with a much smaller fat body.

Phil, I may have MADE AN ERROR using the term DIFFERENT KING OF EGG.  I?ll explain:  The genetic material of the egg is encoded differently between winter and summer bees by the fact that is visible, the larger fat body.  The genetic coding my be triggered environmental such as shorter days, or enzymes that the queen produces in the egg, or other factors,,,,, as Ben texted previously.  I used the term, different kind of egg loosely instead of going into the genetic coding which most folks find confusing.

More detailed: in the winter egg, the stem cells that code for the fat body are more active as the replication sequences that the DNA polymerase binds to create higher rates of cellular division [mitosis] has a higher rate of cellular reproduction of the DNA coding for the Fat Body.  Instead of the genetic mumbo jumbo I just used the word different kind of egg.

Now that I think more about it: A DIFFERENT Kind of EGG is a poor choice of words on my part.  Thank you Phil, good catch.  The egg is actually the same, the encoding of the DNA is different.  I try to translate scientific process to plain simple English and sometimes I am to caviler.
Blessings
Van

Thank you, thank you, for all the information, Mr. Van.  Amazing all the things that go on at the cellular and subcellular level.  Blows the mind!  Perhaps I could attempt an alternate "science to English" translation, both for my benefit and that of others.  It's not that the egg itself is different, it's that due to some trigger that we as yet have not identified, the egg develops into a physiologically different bee.  This different bee is characterized primarily by a longer life span and by the presence of a larger fat body.  These differences are caused by the bee's DNA (which is the blueprint for building a bee, so to speak) triggering the development of these winter bee structures and characteristics as the bee is pupating, I'd imagine.   

[CoolBees]

Member - I'm a little late to this (very active) party, but here's my $.02 that I've sort of "discovered" ... when the bees are, or become, testy - that means they are trying to tell me something is not right. It might be the Dearth, it might be low stores, it might be Mite infestations, or brood disease, or robbing, or queenlessness, or ... something. When I "solve" the problem (if I can figure it out, and give them a solution), they return to a gentle state. ... I could be wrong, but that's been my observation in my short 4 years beeking

[FloridaGardener]

@15th M, re:
> I was thinking of perhaps trying some sugar water spray as an addition tool next time, to see if they'd respond to that.  Any thoughts on this idea?>

The science:
"Agitated honeybees display an increased expectation of bad outcomes (i.e., a “glass-half-empty” or pessimistic bias)"
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3158593/

When I open the hive, I've been pouf-ing with powdered cane sugar to boost mite drop.  The sugar seems to distract them.  Maybe just like people and pets, bees are more agreeable after a snack?

Maybe sugar = happy times ahead during the inspection...?

[The15thMember]

Member - I'm a little late to this (very active) party, but here's my $.02 that I've sort of "discovered" ... when the bees are, or become, testy - that means they are trying to tell me something is not right. It might be the Dearth, it might be low stores, it might be Mite infestations, or brood disease, or robbing, or queenlessness, or ... something. When I "solve" the problem (if I can figure it out, and give them a solution), they return to a gentle state. ... I could be wrong, but that's been my observation in my short 4 years beeking

That's interesting, Alan.  I think that your statements here are true for most animals.  There are very few animals that are aggressive without reason.  Even large predator animals like bears or big cats generally only attack people when they are hungry, protecting young, defending territory, etc.  The animal world experiences very little senseless violence, if any.  I think that this is just as true of insects as it is of more "relatable" mammals.  Certainly there are bees that are more easily set off, e.g. Africanized bees, queens and drones with more aggressive genetics, but I think that your way of thinking is a great mentality to have as a beekeeper because it really shows that you are thinking of the bees' well-being first. 

@15th M, re:
> I was thinking of perhaps trying some sugar water spray as an addition tool next time, to see if they'd respond to that.  Any thoughts on this idea?>

The science:
"Agitated honeybees display an increased expectation of bad outcomes (i.e., a ?glass-half-empty? or pessimistic bias)"
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3158593/

When I open the hive, I've been pouf-ing with powdered cane sugar to boost mite drop.  The sugar seems to distract them.  Maybe just like people and pets, bees are more agreeable after a snack?

Maybe sugar = happy times ahead during the inspection...?

Also interesting, FG.  This is sort of the way that I was thinking, some "positive reinforcement" if you will.  Not to say bees are trainable like dogs or anything (I'm not even an advocate of 100% positive training with dogs), but since the smoke was getting them more irritated, I was wondering if a more positive distraction might be a good idea.  The flip side to that coin is that the smoke stimulates them to eat anyway, so it doesn't end up being that different from using sugar spray in actual application, but I figured it might be worth a try.     

[Dabbler]

Member
One additional technique that I did not see mentioned is to use a "quiet cloth" to cover the open frames.
This is a cloth (typically canvas) sized to fit over the open hive box and keep the bees in a darkened space. You move the cloth as you progress through the hive box, keeping the inspected frames covered.

Is it worth carrying another piece of equipment just for late summer crankiness (vs slow movements and 60 sec pauses)?
Depends on the Beek I guess. I have one but don't use it very often. It has been handy at times though.
However choices are always good.

Spence

[The15thMember]

Member
One additional technique that I did not see mentioned is to use a "quiet cloth" to cover the open frames.
This is a cloth (typically canvas) sized to fit over the open hive box and keep the bees in a darkened space. You move the cloth as you progress through the hive box, keeping the inspected frames covered.

Is it worth carrying another piece of equipment just for late summer crankiness (vs slow movements and 60 sec pauses)?
Depends on the Beek I guess. I have one but don't use it very often. It has been handy at times though.
However choices are always good.

Spence

Great idea, Spence!  I actually have some old pillowcases that I used like that last year, not for aggressive behavior but to help with robbing while I had the hives open. I forgot all about those. That may be a really good option, because it would keep the rest to of the box less aware of what I was doing. I can easily throw a pillowcase in my bucket of stuff I carry up to the hives. Thanks a lot!

[Ben Framed]

Mr Van, our educational discussion kind of got off track with the subject as per Members orginal post. I do have another question that I would appreciate you help. I will start a new topic.

Phillip