Roughing Up Boxes to Encourage Propolis Envelope

[The15thMember]

I've been reading and hearing recently about people roughing up the interiors of their boxes to encourage the bees to coat the walls of the hive with propolis, like wild colonies do in tree cavities, the idea being that the colony's health is benefited by the anti-microbial properties of the propolis.  Has anyone tried this?  If so, what did you use to rough up the boxes?  Did you notice any differences in colony health? 

[Jim134]

       In my opinion just a bunch of busy work.. Bees are going to propolis anyway.. No matter if the surface is Rough or Smooth.



                      BEE HAPPY   Jim134   

[Beeboy01]

I was given a few boxes that had the insides painted which I didn't like. I used a belt sander with a 80 grit belt to grind most of the paint off. I'm not sure if the bees even cared if the inside of the box was painted or raw wood. They had them coated with propolis by the end of the season. 

[Bob Wilson]

15. Doesn't it seem, with the amount that the bees already gunk up the frames, the frame rests, the lid, the entrance and everything else, that there is already plenty of propolis, negating the need for extra work?

[beesnweeds]

All my full size hives are store bought.  When I decided to get into overwintering nucs I didnt like the commercial boxes and made my own 5 over 5 nucs, 10 years ago.  A local mill makes 1 x 12 rough cut boards that worked out nicely.  Bees do coat the inside with more propolis but I dont see any difference in health between them and commercial hives.  I also have read some articles that stated more propolis is healthier.  Im not convinced but it certainly doesnt hurt in any way.

[Acebird]

       In my opinion just a bunch of busy work.. Bees are going to propolis anyway.. No matter if the surface is Rough or Smooth.

Ditto.  For both the beekeeper and the bees.

[rast]

Someone is going to have to show me some real proof that it helps before I am going to spend time doing it. Seems that it is newer beekeepers doing it from what I read.

[The15thMember]

So the overarching feeling seems to be that it's not worth the time/the bees will propolise the walls either way.  I guess I'm wondering how much propolis is enough to constitute an envelope.  For example in Tom Seeley's book "The Lives of Bees" he says, "The walls inside a bee tree are coated with tree resins that make them shiny and waterproof, whereas the walls of a bee hive--even one used for years and years--have no such coating, so they usually look as dull and porous as freshly paned boards."  I have found, as many of you have by the way you are talking, that statement not to be entirely accurate, as after a year or two the interior of my brood boxes become darkened from propolis applied to the walls in some small amount.  So is that enough propolis for them to benefit from it?  I don't know, and probably no one does. 

I have a few boxes that I bought from a guy who makes them locally with his own wood from his own mill, and his boxes are much rougher than the boxes from the big companies, and my bees put more propolis on the walls of these boxes than they do on the super smooth commercial ones.  Basically I'm looking for a way to rough up the walls of the smooth boxes so they are more like the rougher ones, or even rougher than that.   

 

[FloridaGardener]

New boxes eventually get "seasoned" like a cooking pan.  After a couple of years, the insides are glossy, golden, and slick.  When they're rinsed out during maintenance (example: late winter if the colony contracted, and there's mildew in an unused edge) then the garden hose nozzle's "jet" setting will rinse it right off.  Lay in the sun to dry.

Some colonies appear to make more propolis than others.  Perhaps switching/rotating boxes can evenly coat all.

I stopped saving the propolis from the side of the frames.  When I inspect, I hold the frame steady on the worktable or lid, balancing on the corner and scrape with my hive tool.  Otherwise I can't fit all 10 frames back in the box...too much goo between frame tops.

I'll throw the propolis in the screened bottom (obviously while frames are out...) so they can put it somewhere else, or throw it out ... but probably put it right back from where I scraped it away.

[Lesgold]

A few years ago I made some boxes from recycled cypress pine flooring boards. The boards were rough sawn on the underside. Those boxes are fully propolised on the inside and are quite shiny. No other boxes have been treated this way by the bees. Not sure if it was the rough surface or the strong, oily smell of this timber. I have never really thought much about it except to say that the smell of the timber is gone and the bees are happy. I can?t ask for any more than that. If there are other advantages to the propolised surface, that?s a bonus. Bees tend to behave in a manner that?s beneficial to the health of their hive so your thoughts are definitely worth consideration.

Cheers

Les

[The15thMember]

I was talking to my mom and sister about it, and my sister has an old rasp that she uses for trimming goat hooves that she'd like to replace, so I may give that a try.  It's one of those things where I'd just like to do everything I can to help with the bees' health, and this absolutely cannot hurt.  I'll probably do a couple boxes and use them for a split and see what happens.   

[Ben Framed]

The scientist in you must be allowed to do its thing!    I am interested in your experiment Reagan. Keep up updated.

Phillip

[Beeboy01]

If it's a question which can only be answered by trying it then give it a try. Any piece of information gleaned will be worth it instead of wondering for years would it of worked. 
  In other words give it a try, it can't hurt and you will learn something. ;)

[The15thMember]

The scientist in you must be allowed to do its thing!    I am interested in your experiment Reagan. Keep up updated.

Phillip

If it's a question which can only be answered by trying it then give it a try. Any piece of information gleaned will be worth it instead of wondering for years would it of worked. 
  In other words give it a try, it can't hurt and you will learn something. ;)

I will, and I'll let you know what happens.  I'm very curious to find out.   

[TheHoneyPump]

Sounds like a make-work project to me. Honestly, best to save yourself the bother and put your valuable time to other much more impactful bee-stuff. IMHO.
My bees seem to apply a thin coating of propolis and wax to the walls of the box without any extra work on my part. The critical coaxing factor is colony strength. A box full enough of bees that the cluster is living and working at the walls. Meaning wall2wall bees. If the cluster is small not touching the walls, they don't do much to them until they need to be working out there.
Also of importance. Producing propolis is a genetic trait which commercially has been undesirable and is actively suppressed in breeding selection. Meaning most of the bees bought out there inherently make very little to no propolis, regardless. So, best to know if that is the case with your bees before getting too concerned about whether they are making it or not. You may be hoping/expecting them to do something that they just are not inclined nor capable of genetically.


Hope that helps.

[The15thMember]

Sounds like a make-work project to me. Honestly, best to save yourself the bother and put your valuable time to other much more impactful bee-stuff. IMHO.
My bees seem to apply a thin coating of propolis and wax to the walls of the box without any extra work on my part. The critical coaxing factor is colony strength. A box full enough of bees that the cluster is living and working at the walls. Meaning wall2wall bees. If the cluster is small not touching the walls, they don't do much to them until they need to be working out there.
Also of importance. Producing propolis is a genetic trait which commercially has been undesirable and is actively suppressed in breeding selection. Meaning most of the bees bought out there inherently make very little to no propolis, regardless. So, best to know if that is the case with your bees before getting too concerned about whether they are making it or not. You may be hoping/expecting them to do something that they just are not inclined nor capable of genetically.


Hope that helps.

I'm aware that propolis production is influenced by genetics, and if it's something the bees aren't interested in doing, then that's fine with me too.  I'd just like to give them the opportunity and see if they take it or not.  If roughing up the boxes is all it takes, I have few enough hives that the time spent is worth it to me, especially if it's beneficial to their health.  Thanks, HP, and everyone else, for responding.     

[Acebird]

I was talking to my mom and sister about it, and my sister has an old rasp that she uses for trimming goat hooves that she'd like to replace, so I may give that a try.

Unless you have had a lot of time and practice with a file it will be difficult to do the center of the boards.  The easiest way and the fastest way is with a belt sander #50 grit belt cross grain.  Light pressure or you will tear into the boards.

[Acebird]

If it's a question which can only be answered by trying it then give it a try.

The trouble is you cannot draw a conclusion from a few samples.

[The15thMember]

Unless you have had a lot of time and practice with a file it will be difficult to do the center of the boards.  The easiest way and the fastest way is with a belt sander #50 grit belt cross grain.  Light pressure or you will tear into the boards.

Thanks, I'll try that if I have trouble with the file.

The trouble is you cannot draw a conclusion from a few samples.

I can draw even fewer conclusions from not trying at all.    I'm not trying to settle these questions for all time, I'm just experimenting with my bees and what works for them at my location.   

[Acebird]

The trouble is you cannot draw a conclusion from a few samples.

I can draw even fewer conclusions from not trying at all. 

This isn't true either.  If you spoke with several commercial beekeepers that have had thousands of hives in their career under all kinds of conditions you could draw a more accurate conclusion.  At least one has already posted.  If you do your test and make a conclusion you have a 50/50 chance of getting it right.  Another avenue you could pursue is to consult an entomologist or books written by entomologists and get a better chance of getting it right.  Many hobbyist conduct these "tests" that are not tests at all because they don't have the background and knowledge to conduct any test.
Most smart people get smarter from other peoples efforts.