Community Feeding

[FatherMichael]

Did a quick search and it has been 10 years since the subject of community feeding was discussed in this forum and it is an idea that seems to be shot down rather quickly then and now.

I put out a community feeder for two hives, one of which was moved to the farm from my back yard because it had become too aggressive.  The other was a newly purchased nuc.

At the time there was not much blooming but the moved hive was top heavy and the nuc had two frames of food.

I built a feeding station for the whole yard, planning to expand to four hives next year.

Community feeding seems like a good idea to me because it cuts down on the robbing of weak hives, which I have witnessed first hand and is not pretty.

[The15thMember]

I see several major issues with open feeding.  Firstly, you are not feeding only your bees, but all the bees within 3 miles of you, which just seems like a waste to me.  Secondly, by drawing in all the bees within three miles you greatly increase the possibility of disease and parasite transmission to your hives, which is the main reason I stopped open feeding.  I used to set out my sticky wax from crushing and straining, and I noticed such a big jump in mite counts when I did that, that I now give hives sticky wax in a modified top feeder instead.  Thirdly, by drawing in all those other bees, you can increase the possibility of robbing, because when you remove the feeder, all those bees are now looking for food at your location and will often target your weak hives.  Lastly, and the one that worries me the most, the timing of your feeding must be precise so that your honey and the honey of all the beekeeper's around you isn't laced with syrup.  And honestly, unless you are very connected to the other beekeepers in your community, how would they even know that what their bees are bringing home isn't nectar?  There is just too much of a possibility you could be causing trouble for others without them even knowing it for me to condone it personally.  If I was going to open feed, I'd be sure to color the syrup, so that I and other beekeepers would know if it was contaminating the honey.               

[Kathyp]

Generally not a good idea especially when there is nothing blooming for all the reasons 15th pointed out.  I used to do it occasionally in spring when robbing is less of a problem.  Things like cappings can be put out if you have a good place away from your hives, but again, it can cause robbing.

Nothing will really cut down on the robbing of weak hives.  There are some tricks to making weak hives stronger.  Swapping its place with a stronger hive so that workers return to the weak one and increase numbers.  Taking a frame or two of brood and workers from a strong hive and move it to a weaker one. 
If you can ID the reason a hive is weak it helps fix things, but often that's hard to do. 

You sure can give it a try and it might work for you, but in general, it's not the best or most economical way to feed.

[FatherMichael]

What bees are likely to try robbing one of your weak hives?

Do they not come from within 3 miles?

[Kathyp]

Any of them.  Could be your own bees.  At my place, one of the worst problems I had was with Yellowjackets.  Anything aggressive and attracted to syrup, honey, or even brood, can be a problem. 

[The15thMember]

What bees are likely to try robbing one of your weak hives?

Bees that have been told by their sisters that there should be food to collect in your area, or bees that have collected food in that area before and are looking for more. 

[FatherMichael]

The theory is that any bees that would look for robbing opportunities would rather drink from a community trough than fight a bunch of guard bees to get in a hive.

All creatures behave better if they have what they need.

The point about corrupting a honey flow is determinative.  I'll take up my feeder, since it is not being visited anyway.

If a dearth occurs then I've got the system in place.

Thanks for the helpful comments!

[The15thMember]

The theory is that any bees that would look for robbing opportunities would rather drink from a community trough than fight a bunch of guard bees to get in a hive.

All creatures behave better if they have what they need.

I agree with this theory, but only while the feeder is in place.  It's when you remove the feeder that you can have robbing problems, because the bees who were visiting the feeder will look for a source of food close by when they can't find the feeder anymore. 

[FatherMichael]

The theory is that any bees that would look for robbing opportunities would rather drink from a community trough than fight a bunch of guard bees to get in a hive.

All creatures behave better if they have what they need.

I agree with this theory, but only while the feeder is in place.  It's when you remove the feeder that you can have robbing problems, because the bees who were visiting the feeder will look for a source of food close by when they can't find the feeder anymore.

But if we feed only during dearth?

[gww]

Unless you are 100 plus yards away from the hives, you probably just cause more robbing.  Have you got some coffee cans and an extra hive body?  The 30 or so ounce ones will fit inside a hive body and you can put four of them filled with sugar water and some straw on top of your inter cover of  your hurting hive and inside the hive body and just put you lid on and it will not cause any new robbing but if the hive is being robbed, it is probably got a problem that feed won't fix and will keep getting robbed with the food on top.  If it is robbing because you used an entrance feeder, Putting the coffee cans in a hive body with a top over it will not cause new robbing. Plus the food goes where it is needed.  I have did this tons of times with new swarms before they even got established and guards set up and it cause no problems.  On the other hand. I once only had one hive and it was rainy and I figured not much would be flying and I put a chicken water of sugar water a couple of feet from it and that hive got robbed out lickity split and it did not stop when I got rid of the chicken water.

The only open feeding I believe in is when I want my extraction equipment cleaned as the bees do a better job.  Some times if I make cinnamon rolls and have a little left over sugar I might set it out dry rather then put it in the trash but that is about it.  Oh, I forgot, I am not too good if I have a dead out and have left them open when I found them and I have no doubt that that can put stress on weak hives around it but I believe in tough love and the bees just need to be tough enough to survive it.  Open feeding for one hive makes zero sense but topping off in fall after the hives have reduced population is done by some commercials.  Can't mess up other people's honey then.

[Kathyp]

Can't mess up other people's honey then.

Good point and the other thing to remember is that if you feed your hive you have adulterated your own honey.  If you aren't taking any, it doesn't matter.  If you intend to take some, you don't want to feed before you extract.

A strong hive that is being fed will take a lot of syrup.  Just as a matter of economy, you don't want to feed the neighborhood!   

[The15thMember]

But if we feed only during dearth?

I suppose if you are precise in your timing and remove the feeder only when the flow is back on, it would keep the robbing risk down.  But the other issues still stand.  I also feel like just feeding every hive during every period of low food is a very high input way of keeping bees.  I'd rather have bees that put up enough honey to be naturally resilient to a period of dearth, instead of propping up bees who aren't really able to manage well with my local flows.  That's my opinion on it anyway. 

[Ben Framed]

Did a quick search and it has been 10 years since the subject of community feeding was discussed in this forum and it is an idea that seems to be shot down rather quickly then and now.

Joe May open feeds, as does David at Barnyard Bees, both community feed, {at least at certain times of the year}. So does Ian Steppler as well as other pros. Timing is the key for those whose livelihoods depend upon it, at least to certain extents.

[Terri Yaki]

I once read that if you ask four different beeks a question, you?ll get five different opinions. Is that true? 

[Ben Framed]

Sometimes! lol   

[gww]

ian feeds because he runs single deep hives and stores them inside over winter.  He is a honey producer and takes everything above a single deep and when the bees have brood there is not enough storage in a single deep for food as well.  Every decision has to be made with specific goals and does not translate to every other way of keeping bees.  He also has a much shorter season to work with then a lot of bee keepers being so far north.  It does not make sense for a bee keeper like me to just will nilly open feed due to possible impact on those around me.   

[FatherMichael]

But if we feed only during dearth?

I suppose if you are precise in your timing and remove the feeder only when the flow is back on, it would keep the robbing risk down.

Has anyone actually seen the robbing of individual hives while community feeding is going on?

[Kathyp]

Timing is the key for those whose livelihoods depend upon it, at least to certain extents.

This is very true.  Robbing is usually less of an issue in spring and I have done open feeding in spring.  Of course, once things are blooming you don't need to feed at all.   

Has anyone actually seen the robbing of individual hives while community feeding is going on?

yes, but in my case open feeding attracted yellowjackets and other insects.  The YJs came in the latter summer anyway and robbed, but open feeding brought all kinds of things into my yard in numbers that would not have been there otherwise.  That's where the money issue came in for me.  I didn't feel like I needed to feed the entire insect world!

You can always do it and see how it works out over the course of the season.  We all experiment and that's part of learning.  You might have better luck with it than some of us.

[The15thMember]

Has anyone actually seen the robbing of individual hives while community feeding is going on?

I have from setting out sticky wax, and again, it's always once I remove the feed that robbing starts, and I had the most trouble when I had it close to the apiary.  By putting robbing screens on smaller colonies I was able to keep it under control, but once I got a hive top feeder I just found that to be much better for everyone. 

You can always do it and see how it works out over the course of the season.  We all experiment and that's part of learning.  You might have better luck with it than some of us.

Sure, there is nothing wrong with trying it.  In my opinion you just need to be aware that it can affect other beekeepers, and that is something to be conscientious about. 

[Ben Framed]

Thats true too gww. And can you imagine how long it would take to individually feed hundreds of hives! Open feeding for the pros is much more feasible at certain times of the year.. Even still, Ian bucket top feeds when he is getting ready to top them off, shut 'em' down, and put them up, for Winter. Again timing and Seasons dictate the need and method...